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Thread: Poland’s PiS wins absolute majority in parliamentary vote: exit polls

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Not related to pulstar at all, just a general observation:

    I noticed long ago that The Apricity is full of Western leftists and liberals, but racist ones.

    And they always blame "inferior races" for their economic problems and social problems.

    It is like a flashback from comrades Marx & Engels, who wrote that the Basques etc. had to be eliminated because they could not adapt to supreme communism.


    So you live somewhere in the Balkans?



    Are you talking about Balkan wars?
    Yes, I live somewhere in the Balkans, and no I'm not talking about Balkan wars, which are just side effect of nationalism in our case. I'm talking about decriminalization of mafia-like structures and organizations, diminished rights, poor quality of life, unemployment, destroyed economy by stupid policies and more. Conservatism-nationalism mix also brings weak institutions and even weaker, unsustainable economy. We witness that today much more clearly because we got no wars in the Balkans, unlike in the 90's but its the same group of people we are talking about, same mentality, on the leading positions. And yes, you're taking the Balkan route. I see similar pattern taking a stand in your country.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Yes because they were hoping to get supermajority of seats and amend the constitution.
    I am curious, what changes would they like to do in the Polish constitution?
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    Quote Originally Posted by pulstar View Post
    Yes, I live somewhere in the Balkans, and no I'm not talking about Balkan wars, which are just side effect of nationalism in our case. I'm talking about decriminalization of mafia-like structures and organizations, diminished rights, poor quality of life, unemployment, destroyed economy by stupid policies and more. Conservatism-nationalism mix also brings weak institutions and even weaker, unsustainable economy. We witness that today much more clearly because we got no wars in the Balkans, unlike in the 90's but its the same group of people we are talking about, same mentality, on the leading positions. And yes, you're taking the Balkan route. I see similar pattern taking a stand in your country.
    Law and Justice actually destroyed mafia-like structures & organizations, which existed under the previous government (Civic Platform) as was exposed by secret tapes which recorded their politicians in private. For example, the former Minister of Internal Affairs was recorded back in 2014 saying "Poland exists as an independent state only theoretically". And that was actually one of less shocking opinions expressed by Civic Platform's politicians that were recorded on tapes and published.

    Quality of life is rising, unemployment is currently at all times low (actually they have to import workers from Ukraine), the institutions are strong.

    Why do you think did they get over 8 million votes this time compared to 5,7 million in 2015?

    The Civic Platform (now Civic Coalition) is finished as a party. They completely disgraced themselves during their 8 years of rule. They became a joke, a shadow. Until a brand new party with brand new people (young patriotic politicians, new faces in politics) emerges, opposition will not overcome the current government.

    PS:

    I personally did not vote for Law and Justice, but for one of small parties - because I didn't want Law and Justice to be able to amend the constitution.

    If only 3 parties/coalitions made it above the election threshold, then Law and Justice would have supermajority of seats due to the D'Hondt method.

    Thankfully 5 parties made it into the parliament, so Law and Justice will not have unlimited power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas View Post
    I am curious, what changes would they like to do in the Polish constitution?
    I don't know but I think our constitution is good which is why I didn't want them to be able to do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Law and Justice destroyed mafia-like structures and organizations, which existed under the previous government (Civic Platform) as was exposed by secret tapes which recorded their politicians in private. For example, the former Minister of Internal Affairs was recorded back in 2014 saying "Poland exists as an independent states only theoretically". And this is one of less shocking opinions expressed by Civic Platform's politicians that were recorded on secret tapes and published before 2015.

    Quality of life is rising, unemployment is currently at all times low, the institutions are strong.

    Why do you think did they get over 8 million votes this time compared to 5,7 million in 2015?
    Ok, I don't live in Poland and I just follow your news occasionally, but it seems to me like rhetoric I listen here. The institutions do not seem strong. For example, they can't enforce ban on illegal logging in Eastern Poland, and they can barely preserve politicians from appointing the judges in the judiciary system (I don't recall what happened in the end). Unemployment is all time low because most of the able workers already emigrated (sad story, but I know this thing from the first hand, although its not as severe as in Balkans). So all in all, I'd wait for the next government to how good these guys are doing, but it does not sound promising. Also, conservatives are famous for use of many almost Nazi-like propaganda tricks to get more voters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pulstar View Post
    Unemployment is all time low because most of the able workers already emigrated
    They did under previous governments, since 2004 when we joined the EU. After Brexit referendum emigration stopped.

    Quote Originally Posted by pulstar View Post
    and they can barely preserve politicians from appointing the judges in the judiciary system (I don't recall what happened in the end).
    But some judges were involved in mafia-like structures. Anyway, in the end politicians were not able to exert influence.

    The dispute lasted until these judges naturally retired when they were supposed to retire (even if there was no dispute).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    But some judges were involved in mafia-like structures. Anyway, in the end politicians were not able to exert influence.
    You might be right, but still I'm highly skeptic because this is exactly the kind of rhetoric I listen from our local conservative politicians: "They sold all our factories", "They wanted to give up this piece of land"... meanwhile democratic governments left country in healthy fiscal state while these conservatives will put in debt even two unborn, future generations if they don't get removed in the next couple of years. And I'm just scratching the surface of what can become major shipwreck here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pulstar View Post
    Also, conservatives are famous for use of many almost Nazi-like propaganda tricks to get more voters.
    Ok but real conservatives are in Confederation. Which for the first time made it into the parliament this year.

    Now western public opinion will see that Law and Justice are not "Nazis" when compared to Confederation.

    Korwin-Mikke from Confederation is famous for saying, for example, that "taxes were lower under Hitler".

    ====

    Confederation is a union of Janusz Korwin-Mikke, Grzegorz Braun and nationalists:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confed...d_Independence

    Grzegorz Braun's speech to Americans in English, since 1:00 of the video, "Poland is the only country where people don't hate Americans yet" he said:

    Last edited by Peterski; 10-14-2019 at 05:56 PM.

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    https://zielonagora-nowasol.regional...wawilo-niemca/

    Klaudiusz Balcerzak, kandydat Prawa i Sprawiedliwości na senatora, ma podwójne obywatelstwo, polskie i niemieckie. – Cztery razy głosowałem na Merkel – przyznaje.
    Klaudiusz Balcerzak, candidate of Law and Justice for senator, has dual Polish and German citizenship. "I voted for Merkel four times," he admits

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundqvist View Post
    https://zielonagora-nowasol.regional...wawilo-niemca/

    Klaudiusz Balcerzak, candidate of Law and Justice for senator, has dual Polish and German citizenship. "I voted for Merkel four times," he admits
    Do you remember German user Teutone? He hates Merkel for some reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Interesting point of view from discussion on a Polish forum:

    "These elections confirm that the Polish people are essentially leftist.

    But some of them are economically leftist and socially traditional [Law and Justice, Polish Coalition*]. There is also a group economically liberal and socially leftist [Civic Coalition].

    The group that is socially traditional and economically liberal-conservative is less numerous [Confederation], just like the group both economically and socially leftist [Leftists]."


    *The core of Polish Coalition is Polish People's Party - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_People%27s_Party

    But of course western media will keep saying we're right wing.
    The winners of the election are socially right-wing (traditional).

    In Western countries, "right-wing" means "socially right-wing/traditional" most of the time.

    That's why Poland is called right-wing in the West. Nobody in the west knows that they are economically left, they just know a bit about their right-wing social views.

    Online, many Polish [social] leftists also advertise to Westerners that PiS is a horrible right-wing party and that Poland is a country that should be more socially liberal like Western Europe is.

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