k36 schematic map ("PCA")

[Leto]

Russians from Central Russia up to Ivanovo and Kostroma also look like SW Russians and can cluster with Ukrainians and Belarusians. My wife is from Vladimir and clustering with Ukrainians from Belgorod and Belarusians.

Nobody is looking down on Uralics. I was dissappointed that i and my wife lack significant Uralic admixture but presenting Russians as very different from other Slavs and mostly descendants of Uralics is simply not supported by hard facts.

As a Steppe supremacist you should be glad that your ancestry is from Ukraine and Southern Russia I also find your Afghan R1a quarter fascinating, some real Aryan connection.

[Leto]

Laag is trying to present Nenets as Aryans
Don't worry, we we know these two are loonies. Not a Cop great member.

I'm not familiar with Laag, he doesn't seem to care about DNA and I don't care about taxonomy, so our paths don't cross. But as a general rule Russians online tend to speak poor English and have weird views, some are absolutely ridiculous (remember Lyssy, he was from Ukraine but Russian-speaking).

[Arhat]

As a Steppe supremacist you should be glad that your ancestry is from Ukraine and Southern Russia I also find your Afghan R1a quarter fascinating, some real Aryan connection.

My Afghan R1a-Y3 line was found 7000 years ago near Kursk and Kharkov from where my grandmother and the paternal-grand-grandfather of my wife is from. It was a long tour for my line

[War Chef]

No, western Balkans had low population after wars and plagues and that is why we cluster so northern for our geographic position (which is more south than northern Italy)

Incorrect.

The Russians don't cluster so far east. They cluster like the original source Slavic population. Meaning there was nothing to absorb.

Balkan Slavs are only like 2/3 Slavic, 1/3 Paleo-Balkan. 3/4 : 1/4 if lucky.

[Jana]

Incorrect.
The Russians don't cluster so far east. They cluster like the original source Slavic population. Meaning there was nothing to absorb.
Balkan Slavs are only like 2/3 Slavic, 1/3 Paleo-Balkan. 3/4 : 1/4 if lucky.

No, you are incorrect. I didn't mention Russians, I said we are very northern for our geographic location and that my region was quite depopulated.
And Russians are not pure Slavic on average.

Balkans Slavs have more diversity than east and west Slavs lol.

[Jana]

Incorrect.
The Russians don't cluster so far east. They cluster like the original source Slavic population. Meaning there was nothing to absorb.
Balkan Slavs are only like 2/3 Slavic, 1/3 Paleo-Balkan. 3/4 : 1/4 if lucky.

No, you are incorrect. I didn't mention Russians, I said we are very northern for our geographic location and that my region was quite depopulated.
And Russians are not pure Slavic on average.

Balkans Slavs have more diversity than east and west Slavs lol.

[Leto]

An average ethnic/Slavic Russian would be something like this Russian-American woman I once posted. She is 37.5% Southwestern Russian (Kursk), 25% Northern Russian (Kostroma), 25% some other Russian (perhaps Southern, not sure) and 12.5% German from Poland. German ancestry in Russia is not as rare as one would think, there were 2 million Germans in the Soviet Union. Her German seems to have been heavily Eastern Euro, not Dutch-like.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...tryDNA-Results

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 48.59
2 North_Atlantic 24.96
3 West_Med 11.42
4 West_Asian 5.38
5 Siberian 3.39
6 East_Med 2.82
7 East_Asian 1.62
8 Oceanian 0.93
9 Amerindian 0.47
10 Red_Sea 0.43

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Estonian_Polish 4.98
2 Southwest_Russian 5.07
3 Russian_Smolensk 5.18
4 Ukrainian_Belgorod 5.91
5 Kargopol_Russian 5.95
6 Ukrainian 6.24
7 Belorussian 6.42
8 Polish 6.83
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.46
10 Erzya 7.75
11 Lithuanian 7.93
12 South_Polish 8.79
13 Estonian 9.13
14 East_Finnish 10.57
15 Finnish 11.25
16 Croatian 13.6
17 Southwest_Finnish 13.85
18 Moldavian 15.9
19 Hungarian 17.9
20 East_German 19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.4% Ukrainian + 42.6% Erzya @ 3.64
2 54.3% Polish + 45.7% Erzya @ 3.8
3 52% Kargopol_Russian + 48% Ukrainian @ 3.94
4 69.7% Estonian_Polish + 30.3% Erzya @ 4.07
5 95.4% Estonian_Polish + 4.6% Hakas @ 4.11
6 96.2% Estonian_Polish + 3.8% Mongolian @ 4.11
7 95.1% Estonian_Polish + 4.9% Kazakh @ 4.12
8 96.5% Estonian_Polish + 3.5% Buryat @ 4.12
9 67.7% Russian_Smolensk + 32.3% Erzya @ 4.12
10 57.9% Russian_Smolensk + 42.1% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.14
11 95.9% Estonian_Polish + 4.1% Altaian @ 4.14
12 95.5% Estonian_Polish + 4.5% Kirgiz @ 4.15
13 96.4% Estonian_Polish + 3.6% Tuvinian @ 4.15
14 60.9% Estonian_Polish + 39.1% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.16
15 96.8% Estonian_Polish + 3.2% Hezhen @ 4.18
16 96.8% Estonian_Polish + 3.2% Xibo @ 4.18
17 96.6% Russian_Smolensk + 3.4% Oroqen @ 4.18
18 97% Estonian_Polish + 3% Oroqen @ 4.19
19 89% Estonian_Polish + 11% Chuvash @ 4.19
20 88% Estonian_Polish + 12% Tatar @ 4.2

Her MyHeritage results (upload)


Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:

Spoiler!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.1
2 Eastern_Euro 23.3
3 North_Sea 23.01
4 Atlantic 11.06
5 West_Med 8.11
6 Siberian 2.18
7 West_Asian 2
8 Southeast_Asian 1.23
9 Oceanian 0.77
10 Amerindian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian 6.08
2 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.67
3 Southwest_Russian 8
4 Polish 8.15
5 South_Polish 8.25
6 Kargopol_Russian 8.4
7 Estonian 8.52
8 Estonian_Polish 8.65
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 8.65
10 Belorussian 9.18
11 Russian_Smolensk 9.45
12 Erzya 9.66
13 East_Finnish 10.37
14 Lithuanian 10.53
15 Finnish 11.89
16 Croatian 13.12
17 Moldavian 13.7
18 Southwest_Finnish 14.08
19 Hungarian 14.67
20 East_German 16.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.6% Ukrainian + 32.4% Erzya @ 4.48
2 65.5% Ukrainian + 34.5% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.9
3 88.4% Ukrainian + 11.6% Chuvash @ 5.03
4 90.9% Ukrainian + 9.1% Mari @ 5.1
5 59% Ukrainian_Lviv + 41% Erzya @ 5.18
6 76% Ukrainian + 24% East_Finnish @ 5.4
7 54.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 45.7% Kargopol_Russian @ 5.5
8 96.9% Ukrainian + 3.1% Selkup @ 5.69
9 75.5% Ukrainian + 24.5% Estonian @ 5.72
10 97.1% Ukrainian + 2.9% Ket @ 5.76
11 96.5% Ukrainian + 3.5% Shors @ 5.78
12 56.8% South_Polish + 43.2% Erzya @ 5.79
13 97.1% Ukrainian + 2.9% Hakas @ 5.84
14 85.8% Ukrainian + 14.2% Lithuanian @ 5.9
15 98% Ukrainian + 2% Tuvinian @ 5.9
16 93.3% Ukrainian + 6.7% Tatar @ 5.92
17 98.1% Ukrainian + 1.9% Saqqaq @ 5.92
18 82.6% Ukrainian + 17.4% Estonian_Polish @ 5.93
19 98% Ukrainian + 2% Altaian @ 5.94
20 80.7% Ukrainian + 19.3% Southwest_Russian @ 5.94

EUtest Oracle results:

Spoiler!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 29.79
2 EAST_EURO 25.06
3 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 20.23
4 ATLANTIC 12.48
5 WEST_MED 5.76
6 EAST_MED 2.43
7 WEST_ASIAN 1.59
8 SIBERIAN 1.57
9 EAST_ASIAN 1.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Belorussian 4.04
2 Ukrainian-Russian 4.8
3 West_Russian 4.91
4 UA 5.49
5 PL 5.63
6 EE 5.89
7 Northwest_Russian 6.04
8 LIT 8.71
9 East_Russian 9.23
10 North_Russian 9.72
11 South_Finnish 9.98
12 East_Finnish 9.99
13 Erzya 12.14
14 HU 15.93
15 North_Swedish 16.33
16 AT 18.94
17 South_&_Central_Swedish 19.66
18 Komi 20.88
19 NO 20.91
20 Serbian 20.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.9% Belorussian + 24.1% East_Finnish @ 2.65
2 76.4% Belorussian + 23.6% South_Finnish @ 2.75
3 76.7% Belorussian + 23.3% East_Russian @ 3.05
4 57.9% Ukrainian-Russian + 42.1% EE @ 3.14
5 89.4% Belorussian + 10.6% Komi @ 3.22
6 86.8% Belorussian + 13.2% North_Swedish @ 3.23
7 68.1% UA + 31.9% East_Finnish @ 3.25
8 79.9% Belorussian + 20.1% North_Russian @ 3.32
9 96.1% Belorussian + 3.9% KZ @ 3.37
10 97% Belorussian + 3% Selkup @ 3.38
11 76.2% Northwest_Russian + 23.8% North_Swedish @ 3.42
12 97.8% Belorussian + 2.2% Chukchi @ 3.44
13 97.9% Belorussian + 2.1% Koryak @ 3.46
14 90.8% Belorussian + 9.2% Udmurt @ 3.46
15 90.8% Belorussian + 9.2% NO @ 3.47
16 65.5% Northwest_Russian + 34.5% South_Finnish @ 3.5
17 91.8% Belorussian + 8.2% DK @ 3.5
18 74% Ukrainian-Russian + 26% South_Finnish @ 3.5
19 90.7% Belorussian + 9.3% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.52
20 85.5% Belorussian + 14.5% Erzya @ 3.54

MDLP K23b Oracle results:

Spoiler!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 50.93
2 Caucasian 25.03
3 European_Early_Farmers 12.72
4 Ancestral_Altaic 3.1
5 East_Siberian 2.76
6 South_Central_Asian 1.32
7 Austronesian 0.92
8 Amerindian 0.85
9 Australoid 0.74
10 Tungus-Altaic 0.55
11 Paleo_Siberian 0.49
12 Near_East 0.33
13 North_African 0.14
14 Melano_Polynesian 0.08
15 East_African 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 German ( ) 4.86
2 Kashub ( ) 4.87
3 Sorb ( ) 5.31
4 Russian-North-West ( ) 5.4
5 Slovak ( ) 6.24
6 Russian_North ( ) 6.55
7 Russian-West ( ) 6.56
8 Russian_Meshtchyora ( ) 6.57
9 Russian-Upper-Volga ( ) 6.74
10 Czech ( ) 7.48
11 Ukrainian_West ( ) 7.96
12 Moksha ( ) 7.96
13 Belarusian_West ( ) 8.27
14 Belarusian-East ( ) 8.3
15 Balt ( ) 8.32
16 Erzya ( ) 8.44
17 Hungarian ( ) 8.59
18 Russian_South ( ) 8.64
19 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 8.94
20 German_East ( ) 9.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.2% Russian-West ( ) + 7.8% Basque_Spanish ( ) @ 2.18
2 64.1% Hungarian ( ) + 35.9% Vepsa ( ) @ 2.18
3 93.1% Kashub ( ) + 6.9% Selkup ( ) @ 2.19
4 63.8% Slovenian ( ) + 36.2% Karelian ( ) @ 2.21
5 65.3% Hungarian ( ) + 34.7% Karelian ( ) @ 2.21
6 92.4% Russian-West ( ) + 7.6% Basque_French ( ) @ 2.22
7 73.2% Kashub ( ) + 26.8% Finnish-East ( ) @ 2.23
8 91% Russian-West ( ) + 9% Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS ( ) @ 2.25
9 62.6% Slovenian ( ) + 37.4% Vepsa ( ) @ 2.29
10 67.1% Slovak ( ) + 32.9% Finnish-East ( ) @ 2.31
11 94% Kashub ( ) + 6% Ket ( ) @ 2.33
12 89% Russian-West ( ) + 11% French_South ( ) @ 2.33
13 89.8% Kashub ( ) + 10.2% Saami ( ) @ 2.36
14 74.1% Kashub ( ) + 25.9% Finn_East ( ) @ 2.37
15 87.9% Russian-West ( ) + 12.1% Spanish_Cantabria_IBS ( ) @ 2.39
16 50.5% Austrian ( ) + 49.5% Russian-North ( ) @ 2.41
17 88% Russian-West ( ) + 12% Spanish_Aragon_IBS ( ) @ 2.41
18 67.9% Slovak ( ) + 32.1% Finn_East ( ) @ 2.44
19 72.4% Kashub ( ) + 27.6% Finnish_FIN ( ) @ 2.44
20 54.8% Hungarian ( ) + 45.2% Russian-North ( ) @ 2.44

Dodecad K12b Oracle results:

Spoiler!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 58.5
2 Atlantic_Med 21.64
3 Caucasus 9.17
4 Gedrosia 4.21
5 Siberian 3.41
6 Southwest_Asian 1.58
7 East_Asian 0.97
8 Southeast_Asian 0.51

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish (Dodecad) 7.25
2 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 8.88
3 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 10.04
4 Russian (Dodecad) 10.65
5 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 11.86
6 Belorussian (Behar) 11.89
7 Russian (HGDP) 11.93
8 Russian_B (Behar) 12.43
9 Hungarians (Behar) 12.67
10 Swedish (Dodecad) 13.55
11 German (Dodecad) 14.98
12 Lithuanian (Dodecad) 16.64
13 Norwegian (Dodecad) 16.72
14 FIN30 (1000Genomes) 17.75
15 Finnish (Dodecad) 19.45
16 Lithuanians (Behar) 19.46
17 Dutch (Dodecad) 21.51
18 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 21.82
19 Chuvashs (Behar) 23.5
20 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 24.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.7% Russian (HGDP) + 44.3% German (Dodecad) @ 1.43
2 67.5% Russian (Dodecad) + 32.5% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2
3 67.2% Russian (Dodecad) + 32.8% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.09
4 70.2% Russian (Dodecad) + 29.8% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.09
5 73.6% Russian (Dodecad) + 26.4% French (Dodecad) @ 2.12
6 84% Russian (Dodecad) + 16% Pais_Vasco (1000Genomes) @ 2.13
7 58.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 41.5% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.13
8 72.2% Russian (Dodecad) + 27.8% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 2.14
9 85.6% Russian (Dodecad) + 14.4% French_Basque (HGDP) @ 2.16
10 64.9% Russian (HGDP) + 35.1% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.16
11 67.6% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) + 32.4% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.17
12 69.9% Russian (Dodecad) + 30.1% English (Dodecad) @ 2.19
13 69.7% Russian (Dodecad) + 30.3% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.2
14 74% Russian (Dodecad) + 26% French (HGDP) @ 2.22
15 64.6% Russian (HGDP) + 35.4% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.24
16 71.8% Russian (Dodecad) + 28.2% British (Dodecad) @ 2.24
17 60.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 39.2% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.46
18 70.1% Russian (Dodecad) + 29.9% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.48
19 67.1% Russian_B (Behar) + 32.9% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.49
20 64.8% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) + 35.2% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.5

Her GEDmatch is overall very average, I would say as someone who has seen like 200+ Russian and Slavic results.

[War Chef]

No, you are incorrect. I didn't mention Russians, I said we are very northern for our geographic location and that my region was quite depopulated.
And Russians are not pure Slavic on average.

Balkans Slavs have more diversity than east and west Slavs lol.

Your original argument was that Russians absorbed a Finnic element, I responded by saying there was very very few people to absorb, as evidenced by most Russians clustering with the source Slavic population (Belorussians/Ukrainians). I wrote that even the south-Slavs after Justinian's plague and political upheaval brought by the Avars still had more people to absorb than Russian proto-east-Slavs when settling Russia.

You seem to just be an egocentric poster looking for a debate to stroke your ego. I am way more mature than you.

[Jana]

Your original argument was that Russians absorbed a Finnic element, I responded by saying there was very very few people to absorb, as evidenced by most Russians clustering with the source Slavic population (Belorussians/Ukrainians). I wrote that even the south-Slavs after Justinian's plague and political upheaval brought by the Avars still had more people to absorb than Russian proto-east-Slavs when settling Russia.

You seem to just be an egocentric poster looking for a debate to stroke your ego. I am way more mature than you.

Because your arguments are false. Native population of Russia was already northern European and closer to Slavs than native population of Balkans, which was different world genetically.
Russia is full of Baltic toponyms and hydronyms for example, where did these Baltic tribes dissapear?

Baltic people are closest to Slavs and they were always genetically similar, but Balts are not Slavs. It's like saying British Islanders are pure Germanic just because native Britons were already genetically NW Euro and pretty close to Anglo-Saxons.

Baltic cultures in purple


Map of the ancient Baltic homelands at the time of the Hunnish invasions (3rd-4th c. AD). Archaeology identifies Baltic cultural areas (in purple). The Baltic sphere originally covered Eastern Europe from the Baltic Sea to modern Moscow.

Baltic tribes in 13th century


NE Slavs absorbed Balts, not only north Russians but NE Poles and much of Belarusians too. Deal with it.

[Leto]

Finno-Ugric people seem to have a lot of IE ancestry, I guess they would have adopted Uralic at some point and stopped speaking IE. Of course there was some mixing too. Mordovians are about 10% Mongoloid, some even less than that. Obviously they weren't transplanted magically from Siberia, lol. Just like Estonians are only 2-5% Mongoloid or so, obviously mostly Finnicized local NE Europeans.