R1b origin - relations with Turkic

**altaic** · 10-18-2019, 04:13 PM

I just came across with this article. Probably, some members already know the article. I am R1bL23 via 23adme. Based on MorleyDNA, subcategorized as R1bS47. S47 hablogroup seems that Italian population has a lot of it.
Does below article scientifically true? There are lot of interesting information here that correlates with some other researches.

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turk...enealogyEn.htm

SUMMARY

Based on the data of the DNA genealogy, a concept was formulated and substantiated that in the ancient times, until the middle of the 1st millennium BC, two linguistic fields - the Türkic (Proto-Türkic) and Indo-European, the languages of the haplogroups R1b and R1a respectively, dominated in turns the whole Eurasia reaching the Atlantic Ocean. With a time difference of 1-2 thousand years, people of these haplogroups were migrating in opposite directions, mostly crossing the same territories, which confused present day linguists and archaeologists, and led to the fundamentally erroneous “Kurgan” and “Anatolian” theories of the “Indo-European homeland”.

The modern Uigurs, Kazakhs, Bashkirs, and some other peoples of Siberia, Central Asia and the Urals descend in part from the ancient R1b1 branch, and by now retain the same haplogroup for 16,000 years. The “Türkic-lingual” haplogroup R1b expanded from the South Siberia, where it formed 16,000 years ago, across the territories of the Middle Volga, Samara, Khvalynsk (in the middle course of river Volga) and the Ancient Pit Grave (“Kurgan”) archaeological cultures and historical-cultural complexes (8-6 thousand years ago and later, the common ancestor of the ethnic Russians with haplogroup R1b1 lived 6,775 ± 830 years ago), northern Kazakhstan (for example Botai culture dated by the archaeologists 5,700 - 5,100 years before present (BP), in reality much older), passed through the Caucasus to Anatolia (6,000 ± 800 BP by the dating of R1b1b2 haplogroup of the modern Caucasians), and through the Middle East (Lebanon, 5,300 ± 700 BP; the ancient ancestors of the modern Jews, 5,150 ± 620 BP), and Northern Africa (Berbers of the R1b haplogroup, 3,875 ± 670 BP), crossed over to the Iberian Peninsula (around 4,800-4,500 BP, present day Basques 3625 ± 370 BP) and further on to the British Isles (in the Ireland 3,800 ± 380 and 3,350 ± 360 BP for different populations), and to the continental Europe (Flanders, 4,150 ± 500 BP, Sweden 4,225 ± 520 BP).

The path from the Pyrenees to the Continental Europe is the path and period of the Beaker Culture, the ancestors of the Pra-Celts and Pra-Italics.

In parallel, the traces of the ancient R1b carriers are found in the Balkans (4,050 ± 890 BP), separately in Slovenia (4,050 ± 540 BP), and Italy (4,125 ± 500 BP). That was the beginning of the Türkic languages' time in Europe, and the disappearance there of the Europe “Proto-Indo-European” haplogroup R1a1, which populated Europe from the 10th millennium BC.

The haplogroup R1a1 was practically saved by the fact that 4,800 years ago, in the beginning of the third millennium BC, its bearers moved from Europe to the Eastern European Plains, and settled the territory from the Baltic to the Black Sea, 4,500 BP they were already in the Caucasus, 3,600 BP they were in Anatolia (according to the haplotypes of the R1a1 haplogroup in modern Anatolia). Meanwhile, across the Eastern European Plain they migrated to the southern Ural, and around 4,000 BP on to the southern Siberia, at that time they founded the Andronovo archaeological culture, colonized Central Asia (4,000 - 3,500 BP), and approximately 3,500 BP a part of them went to India and Iran as Aryans, bringing along the Aryan dialects, which effectively closed the linguistic link with the Aryan languages (R1a1) and led to the emergence of the Indo-European family of languages.

4,500-4,000 years ago the R1a1 disappeared from the Western and Central Europe, Europe became Türkic-speaking with the arrival of the people carrying R1b haplogroup (the beginning of the 3rd millennium BC), and that lasted until the middle of the 1st millennium BC (3,000-2,500 years BP), when the haplogroup R1a1 re-populated the Western and Central Europe, and came about a reverse replacement of the Türkic languages to the Indo-European languages. The striations of the linguistic and haplogroup, or tribal (in terms of DNA genealogy) in the Eastern European Plain, in the Near East, and in Europe has led to erroneous linguistic and archaeological concepts such as the “Indo-European Kurgan Culture”, with its transposed languages (postulated” Indo-European”, when it was a Türkic language), the wrong direction of movement (the “Proto-Indo-European” was moving eastward, not westward, the Türkic was moving westward, the westward movement was seen by the creators and supporters of the “Kurgan Culture” as the “Indo-European movement, which was 180 degrees wrong), wrong periods (the Proto-Indo-European language advanced eastward across the Eastern European Plain in the 3rd millennium BC, while the ancient Pit Grave, or the “Kurgan” culture is mainly dated by the period of the 4th-3rd millenniums BC, and were moving westward).

Something similar also happened to the “Anatolian theory”, where a separate (So.Caucasian) branch of the Aryans' route, the southward movement of the R1a1 haplogroup carriers across the Eastern European Plain was mistaken for the “Indo-European homeland” in Anatolia. That led to a conceptual distortion and misunderstanding of the fundamental role of the Türkic languages in the Eastern European Plain (at least from the time 10,000 years ago), and in Europe, where it continued for two and a half thousand years (from the beginning of the 3rd millennium to the middle of the 1st millennium BC).

**Pine** · 10-18-2019, 04:50 PM

Look into FTDNA projects for this group and/or your ethnicity and see if you can find other Turks in it. It's a Bronze Age lineage - a lot of time for plenty to have happened.

**~~Balthier~~** · 10-18-2019, 05:16 PM

Seems like a load of Bullshit to me. There are no r1b found in Yakuts who are the closest group to proto-turkic speakers genetically, hypothesised ancient turkic burials are Q1a, N and J2a.
Your r1b seems to be of Roman origin though.