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  • Igen, a magyar identitásomon belül türknek érzem magam

    3 23.08%
  • Nem, a magyar identitásomon belül másnak érzem magam

    10 76.92%
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Thread: Türknek érzed magad?

  1. #21
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    Turul Karom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oszkar07 View Post
    on the other hand ... Not blaming Turkics or succesors of Ottomans today.

    But just imagine what would be todays Hungarian population if not for the Hungarian death toll made by Tatars in 14th centurys and Ottomans in 17th century.
    That's a fair question. But what would it matter with the Ottomans? The Tatars were the Mongols in this case, not really a Turkic people, but an adjacent people. Stears used to frequently bring up how the Ottomans who occupied and spent most of the time fighting in Hungary were Balkanites who also did not resettle the country with ethnic Turkish.

    If anything, I would think that some people would sill desire the "depopulation" because this is what removed the remnants of Cumans and Cuman influence in Hungary. We bounced back, but the Cumans were totally absorbed. Without the fighting, Hungary might still have a larger Cuman population today, which would not be a popular opinion with some posting here either.

    It would be a question for them as to how they feel about it...

    Who knows what the raw numbers were of ethnic Hungarians? We can say it was "a lot" but all else is just speculation that changes the numbers by large margins.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turul Karom View Post
    That's a fair question. But what would it matter with the Ottomans? The Tatars were the Mongols in this case, not really a Turkic people, but an adjacent people. Stears used to frequently bring up how the Ottomans who occupied and spent most of the time fighting in Hungary were Balkanites who also did not resettle the country with ethnic Turkish.
    Stears is correct. My father's ancestors, who belonged to Bosnian nobility, took part in Ottoman invasion of Hungary and much of Bosnian muslim elite joined them willingly.
    They did not forget bloody Hungarian crusade and occupation attampts against their country.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Crusade

    he Bosnian Crusade was fought against unspecified heretics from 1235 until 1241. It was, essentially, a Hungarian war of conquest against the Banate of Bosnia sanctioned as a crusade.
    The failed crusade led to mistrust and hatred for Hungarians among the Bosnian population that lasted for centuries.

    The threat of new religious persecution in Bosnia reappeared within a few years of the war. Pope Innocent IV began urging the Hungarians to undertake another crusade in late 1246 and 1247, and they appeared willing. Matthew Ninoslav argued that he only associated with heretics to defend Bosnia against Hungarian invaders. He appears to have convinced Innocent, who suspended the crusade in March 1248.

    A crusade against Bosnia was preached again in 1337–38 and 1367, by popes Benedict XII and Urban V respectively, but in drastically different political circumstances. Hungary was ruled by a new dynasty, the Capetian Angevins, who supported the Kotromanić rulers of Bosnia. King Charles Robert once declared that any Hungarian who attacked Bosnia, ruled by his friend Stephen II, would be regarded as a traitor. The only significant impact the Bosnian Crusade had was augmenting the anti-Hungarian sentiment among the Bosnians, a major factor in Bosnian politics that contributed to the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia in 1463 and lasted beyond it.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feiichy View Post
    Stears is correct. My father's ancestors, who belonged to Bosnian nobility, took part in Ottoman invasion of Hungary and much of Bosnian muslim elite joined them willingly.
    They did not forget bloody Hungarian crusade and occupation attampts against their country.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Crusade

    he Bosnian Crusade was fought against unspecified heretics from 1235 until 1241. It was, essentially, a Hungarian war of conquest against the Banate of Bosnia sanctioned as a crusade.
    The failed crusade led to mistrust and hatred for Hungarians among the Bosnian population that lasted for centuries.

    The threat of new religious persecution in Bosnia reappeared within a few years of the war. Pope Innocent IV began urging the Hungarians to undertake another crusade in late 1246 and 1247, and they appeared willing. Matthew Ninoslav argued that he only associated with heretics to defend Bosnia against Hungarian invaders. He appears to have convinced Innocent, who suspended the crusade in March 1248.

    A crusade against Bosnia was preached again in 1337–38 and 1367, by popes Benedict XII and Urban V respectively, but in drastically different political circumstances. Hungary was ruled by a new dynasty, the Capetian Angevins, who supported the Kotromanić rulers of Bosnia. King Charles Robert once declared that any Hungarian who attacked Bosnia, ruled by his friend Stephen II, would be regarded as a traitor. The only significant impact the Bosnian Crusade had was augmenting the anti-Hungarian sentiment among the Bosnians, a major factor in Bosnian politics that contributed to the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia in 1463 and lasted beyond it.
    What a surprise, history is full of people fighting other people, and finding whatever reasons they feel justify it. As in post 21, I have little time for grievance-posting about such when better things relating to cooperation arise in the present.

    Oh, and to answer your earlier questions about thread creation, Blondie did start this other thread, but as expected, linked Finno-Ugric as one group rather than separate and did not include Turkic at all. I have not participated in the discussion.

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-meta-ethnicty

    In any case, I am always pro-Hungarian independence from Empires, East and West. Our real issue is the EU, and this is something which all Easterners can rally behind in the name of independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turul Karom View Post
    What a surprise, history is full of people fighting other people, and finding whatever reasons they feel justify it. As in post 21, I have little time for grievance-posting about such when better things relating to cooperation arise in the present.

    Oh, and to answer your earlier questions about thread creation, Blondie did start this other thread, but as expected, linked Finno-Ugric as one group rather than separate and did not include Turkic at all. I have not participated in the discussion.

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-meta-ethnicty

    In any case, I am always pro-Hungarian independence from Empires, East and West. Our real issue is the EU, and this is something which all Easterners can rally behind in the name of independence.
    I will open the tread only for Hungarian members to vote. It will be Ugric vs Turkic, no Finnic included.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feiichy View Post
    I will open the tread only for Hungarian members to vote. It will be Ugric vs Turkic, no Finnic included.
    Very well. Hopefully I could help.

    Speaking of crusades further, Hungary was the first victim of the crusades. The first crusade had two waves, the people's crusade and the official crusade led by the aristocracy. The people's crusade robbed and killed Hungarians and killed many thousands. The official crusading army sieged Hungarian cities after humiliating the populace and it took the Hungarian army under the king himself with righteous fury to make the crusaders flee.


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    ^^^^^Thank you for answer, this is new information for me. Here is the Ugric/Turkic thread: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...44#post6292644

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    Funny to see that only turks voted to "I'm hungarian and i feel myself turkic" option, hungarians not, and only turks liked Turul Karom's posts

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    Hungary is a country that has joined the Turkic Council as observing member. They applied by their own will and weren't forced at gun point.
    Besides, Hungary declared support to Turkish Military undertakings in Syria and even delayed a French-led EU declaration aiming at condemning Turkey.

    Victor Orban himself goes to Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan every other month and declares that his country wants to be the diplomatic, cultural, commercial bridge between the Turkic world and the West.

    That's what happens in real life. Rest (what people write here) is just empty forum talks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turul Karom View Post

    In any case, I am always pro-Hungarian independence from Empires, East and West. Our real issue is the EU, and this is something which all Easterners can rally behind in the name of independence.
    Hopefully one day, Hungary decides to join to the Turkic Council as a full candidate, not as an observer anymore. Our council gets more omnibus day by day and i am sure it will improve our partnerships and increase our common political and diplomatic purposes during that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    Funny to see that only turks voted to "I'm hungarian and i feel myself turkic" option, hungarians not, and only turks liked Turul Karom's posts
    Feiichy seems to like my posts just fine.

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