Germany Rejects Greece’s Demand for War Reparations

[MustafaTekin]

The tensions between turkey and greeks are artificial. the greeks serve israeli-american interests right now, while a deal with Turkey and Russia would suit the Greeks better. before taking a stance against turkey, greece should ask eu to cancel 90% of greek debts. Greece has no economy, it is impossible for them to repay all the money. only if eu cancels greek debts, these tensions between greece and turkey could have any meaning/benefit for greeks. and once again, greece should also force eu to pay for all military investments. this idea can be sold as "protecting the continent from dictator/muslims" etc. the point is: greece should milk eu and not the other way around.

[Petros Houhoulis]

In other words: Greece suffered from a lack of competitiveness (the economical structure was based around either small scale industry or about massive cartels), lack of real innovation, dumb corruption and joining a group of countries whose economic regime they could not hope to match (EEC/EU).

Greece was always cut off from the EU (we only got borders with an EU country when Bulgaria joined) and back then physical distance was a real issue. The biggest problem is that Greece was still fighting Commies until 1949, right afterwards it experienced an economic miracle, until Turkey begun harassing us again and we had to deal with them instead of caring for our economy. We only joined the EEC in order to be distracted from going to war with Turkey over Cyprus, NOT because we deserved it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_economic_miracle

The Greek economic miracle is the period of sustained economic growth in Greece from 1950 to 1973. During this period, the Greek economy grew by an average of 7.7%, second in the world only to Japan.^{[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17]}

When was the last time you were growing at 7.7% on average for decades???

[Petros Houhoulis]

Not gonna lie, it would be funny if Greece had to sell some of their islands like Germany had suggested. I'd like to kick it on a Greek island while speaking German and looking at German architecture:

Bring your navy too while you are at it because the Turks would claim it, and make sure you have enough space to host as many refugees as your own family...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Is there any place on the planet where socialists didn't fuck things up ?

China after it turned Capitalist!

[Petros Houhoulis]

The tensions between turkey and greeks are artificial.

No. Turkey refuses to sign and ratify UNCLOS because it runs contrary to its' interests, unlike the vast majority of the world, since 167 countries have signed it so far:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...Law_of_the_Sea

The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), also called the Law of the Sea Convention or the Law of the Sea treaty, is the international agreement that resulted from the third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS III), which took place between 1973 and 1982. The Law of the Sea Convention defines the rights and responsibilities of nations with respect to their use of the world's oceans, establishing guidelines for businesses, the environment, and the management of marine natural resources. The Convention, concluded in 1982, replaced the quad-treaty 1958 Convention on the High Seas. UNCLOS came into force in 1994, a year after Guyana became the 60th nation to ratify the treaty.^[1] As of June 2016, 167 countries and the European Union have joined in the Convention. It is uncertain as to what extent the Convention codifies customary international law.
While the Secretary-General of the United Nations receives instruments of ratification and accession and the UN provides support for meetings of states party to the Convention, the UN has no direct operational role in the implementation of the Convention. There is, however, a role played by organizations such as the International Maritime Organization, the International Whaling Commission, and the International Seabed Authority (ISA). (The ISA was established by the UN Convention.)

Meanwhile Turkey disputes Lausanne treaties' provisions which articulate that all large islands except Imbros and Tenedos are Greek while Turkey owns all the small islands which lie as far as 3 miles from its' coast, and no further. Turkey has imposed a casus belli against Greece if it dares apply the UCLOS as it is allowed to do since it is a United Nations treaty. Not to mention that Turkey is unwilling to accept that islands with an economy can have an exclusive economic zone. Fuck, Turkey doesn't even recornize Cyprus, which it has invaded like Syria and Iraq...

the greeks serve israeli-american interests right now, while a deal with Turkey and Russia would suit the Greeks better.

The only deal that would suit us would be Turkey to recognize UCLOS and the UN decisions in Cyprus. Russia has signed and applies UNCLOS and more or less has supported Cyprus in the UN. I don't see how it would agree with Turkey which does not respect either...

before taking a stance against turkey, greece should ask eu to cancel 90% of greek debts.

No, we need to ask the EU to impose a complete and utter embargo upon Turkey. That would be enough to destroy Turkey.

Greece has no economy, it is impossible for them to repay all the money.

Not really. Greece is actually receiving loans with NEGATIVE INTEREST much like Germany does lately...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...onth-bill-sale

Even Greece Is Getting Paid to Borrow Money in Debt Markets

By Michael Hunter
October 9, 2019, 12:22 PM GMT+3 Updated on October 9, 2019, 2:25 PM GMT+3

• Negative yields reach euro area’s most-indebted nation
• Current yields don’t reflect bond risks, Newton’s Day says

Greece, the one-time bond-market pariah at the heart of Europe’s sovereign debt crisis, just completed a transformative journey by joining the region’s negative-yield club.
Investors are now paying for the privilege of lending it cash. A sale of 487.5 million euros ($535 million) of 13-week bills Wednesday drew a yield of minus 0.02%. Greece joins the likes of Ireland, Italy and Spain benefitting from the European Central Bank’s supportive monetary policy and deepening fears of a global recession.
It’s a stark turnaround for the euro area’s most-indebted member, which was forced to accept the biggest bond restructuring in history in March 2012 as Greece’s membership of the currency bloc came into doubt. Now the region is grappling with an altogether different problem -- the spread of negative yields, which reduces borrowing costs for governments but threatens to harm savers, pension funds and insurers.


Jon Day, a fixed-income portfolio manager at Newton Investment Management, said the move was “another symptom” of the “global grab for yield, especially in euro-denominated bonds,” pointing out that short-dated Greek bonds were previously one of the few government markets where a positive return was on offer.
“There remain substantial risks around Greece’s financial position and it remains vulnerable to a significant economic slowdown,” he said. “Current yields on their bonds do not reflect this risk."

The trend for negative yields comes after the ECB cut interest rates deeper into negative territory and said it would restart its bond-buying economic stimulus known as quantitative easing. Investors are also looking toward fiscal stimulus as the ability of monetary policy to stoke growth is tested to its limits.
Side Effects

Greece’s government is forecasting 2.8% economic growth in 2020, which it says puts it on track to meet a budget target agreed with creditors while still enacting tax relief measures. The nation also took advantage of record-low borrowing costs by selling 10-year bonds this week at a yield of 1.5%.

“Greece issuing negative-yielding bills is more evidence of the positive effect that negative interest rates and QE has on debt sustainability for governments,” said Peter Chatwell, head of European rates strategy at Mizuho International Plc in London. “Side effects are large for banks and investors, but for the governments there are very significant benefits.”
— With assistance by John Ainger

So, Europeans have reached the point of paying us to keep their money!!!

only if eu cancels greek debts, these tensions between greece and turkey could have any meaning/benefit for greeks.

No, we can fend you off because you fear EU sanctions and embargoes. You lost your arms imports from Europe for attacking Kurds in Syria. It's going to be much worse for you if you face off Greece.

and once again, greece should also force eu to pay for all military investments. this idea can be sold as "protecting the continent from dictator/muslims" etc.

This shall happen as soon as the United Kingdom gets the boot from the EU. They were blocking the common European Defense...

the point is: greece should milk eu and not the other way around.

Greece does milk the EU, it gets loans with negative interest. That's more than enough for now...

[The Lawspeaker]

Greece was always cut off from the EU (we only got borders with an EU country when Bulgaria joined) and back then physical distance was a real issue. The biggest problem is that Greece was still fighting Commies until 1949, right afterwards it experienced an economic miracle, until Turkey begun harassing us again and we had to deal with them instead of caring for our economy. We only joined the EEC in order to be distracted from going to war with Turkey over Cyprus, NOT because we deserved it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_economic_miracle



When was the last time you were growing at 7.7% on average for decades???

That would have been the 1950s, early 60s.

[Zeno]

Greece was always cut off from the EU (we only got borders with an EU country when Bulgaria joined) and back then physical distance was a real issue. The biggest problem is that Greece was still fighting Commies until 1949, right afterwards it experienced an economic miracle, until Turkey begun harassing us again and we had to deal with them instead of caring for our economy. We only joined the EEC in order to be distracted from going to war with Turkey over Cyprus, NOT because we deserved it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_economic_miracle



When was the last time you were growing at 7.7% on average for decades???

It was actually 8% for 1949 to 1960 and 14% from 1960 to 1974. And it was nice that we were cut off from the EU. We got in, and all the problems started.

When we weren't in the EU, our debt was lower than 15% of our GDP. Now it's 160% (it has actually been lowered significantly from 181% in late 2016, but still). We always had budget surpluses. We had a thriving industry (which had gained momentum since 1910 (fucking 1910), making up 50% of our GDP. We had incredibly low tax evasion or avoidance (just 1-2% evaded taxes). We had a small yet functioning state sector. We were competitive. The fact that Greek agriculture was the third biggest in the continent and it was moving in a threatening way against German agriculture and even Dutch, the top on the scale. We had everything. They took it away from us, because (((modernity))).

[The Lawspeaker]

^Dutch agriculture saw huge reforms during the 1950s which led to its extreme productivity. I don't believe that Greek agriculture is that productive because they don't have the right climatic and soil conditions.

[Zeno]

^Dutch agriculture saw huge reforms during the 1950s which led to its extreme productivity. I don't believe that Greek agriculture is that productive because they don't have the right climatic and soil conditions.

Now. Back then it was as productive as I mentioned. And it wasn't only productive because of the climate. But because there were state benefits that were actually helpful, and not the meme benefits of the my EU, which don't enhance motivation of farmers to initiate an agricultural business.

[The Lawspeaker]

Now. Back then it was as productive as I mentioned. And it wasn't only productive because of the climate. But because there were state benefits that were actually helpful, and not the meme benefits of the my EU, which don't enhance motivation of farmers to initiate an agricultural business.

Much of Greece is mountainous and rocky. Not exactly good soil for agriculture. Much of the Netherlands is fertile clay. That should explain why our agriculture got the head start.