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  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCCXXII View Post
    It is certainly not "common knowledge" but just a fabricated version of history spread by Serbian writers in the 19th-20th century that became famous where they basically claim all the Albanians that revolted as Serbs.

    Pretty much every historian that has bothered looking at the sources of these events agree this was an Albanian revolt organized by the Albanian Catholic Pjeter Bogdani and Toma Raspasani, that included both Muslims and Christian Albanians. There were also some Serbs among these Albanians.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pjetėr_Bogdani
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toma_Raspasani

    You can read this book Rebels, Believers, Survivors: Studies in the History of the Albanians from page 128 he tells the fabricated versions then from page 134 he tells the real version, he has used all the sources and documents from 1600's





    Arnaut was a Turkish word for Albanian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnaut











    And here is a German text from 1689 that mentions they were greeted by Albanians 1689 Kosovo in the Great Turkish War of 1683-1699




    They refer to Prizren in Kosovo as 'Capital of Albania' , Archbishop of Albania and Patriarch of Clementa refers to the Albanian name Kelmendi i.e Pjeter Bogdani and Toma Raspasani, they wrote themselves they met the Austrians, and many Albanian Catholics fled to Hungary after the revolt where they died of hunger. They never specify 20,000 Serbs alone. There were also some Serbs among these Albanians. There were also both people fighting on the Ottoman side such as the Albanian Ottoman lord Mahmut Begolli

    Here they mention 20,000 Albanians:





    Here they mention 5,000 Muslim Albanians:





    Prizren was an Albanian Catholic town in the late 1500's and became mostly Muslim Albanian in the 1600's, Western Kosovo was mostly Albanian in the 1600's.


    Show me a single source from the 1689 century that mentions they were greeted by Serbs or Arsenije ? It is completely nonsense. Just a fabricated version of history you have been taught.


    Most historians who have studied this topic with actual documents from these timesalso agree there is no evidence 30k-40k refugees ever left that place or were led by Arsenije or that he led any kind of resistance against the Ottomans or that they were ''replaced by Albanians from a mass immigration'', Arsenije was in Montenegro during the revolt then fled through Peja in Western Kosovo and to Belgrade and wrote himself in a letter nobody was able to get out of Western Kosovo, which was also mostly Albanian. He took the 30k-40k refugees in Belgrade , bunch of refugees that had gathered from all over the place basically, some were from Eastern Kosovo thad had been able to flee.
    Bogdani is very interesting surname for Albanian. Bogdan is Slavic name and exist among Serbs as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogan
    Surname Boganović which came from name Bogdan is common among Serbs, surnames Bogdanić and Bogdan exist but they are quite less common than Bogdanović.

    Migration of Serbs in 1690. from the regions south of Sava and Danube mostly from Kosovo to Pannonia is an historical fact.
    Vuk Isaković for example originated from Sredska near Prizren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuk_Isaković

  2. #292
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    It is nothing but a bunch of fabricated history where they have claimed the Albanians that revolted as Serbs , all the original documents and dispatches from 1689 mention the people that revolted and led this revolt as Albanian. Prizren was mostly an Albanian town:

    In 1624 Pjeter Mazrreku reported that Prizren had roughly 200 Catholic inhabitants and 600 Serviani but thegreat bulk of the population - 12,000 people in 1624 were 'Muslims, almost all of them Albanians'
    According to Catholic Pjeter Mazrreku in the 1600's in Western Kosovo such Has, Prizren etc there were many Catholics but became Muslims from taxes and impositions.

    Yet they claim Prizren was a Serbian town and the Austrians were greeted by Serbs. Not a single document from 1689 that specifies this.

    Nothing but fabrication of history that has become famous.

    Toma Raspasani (Italian: Tomasso Raspassani, c. 1648-17??) was an Albanian Franciscan friar and vicar, subordinate Pjetėr Bogdani, Archbishop of Skopje, with whom he organized an Albanian pro-Austrian movement that would fight in the Great Turkish War against the Ottoman Empire.
    He and his vicar Toma Raspasani played a leading role in the pro-Austrian movement in Kosovo during the Great Turkish War.[9] He contributed a force of 6,000 Albanian soldiers to the Austrian army which had arrived in Pristina and accompanied it to capture Prizren. There, however, he and much of his army were met by another equally formidable adversary, the plague. Bogdani returned to Pristina but succumbed to the disease there in 6 December 1689.[10
    Arsenije Crnojevic was never even Pro-Austrian. There is no mention of any Arsenije Crnojevic , they claim 'Patriarch of Kelmendi' refers to Arsenije when it refers to Bogdani


    You're telling me the guy led an exodus in an area that was mostly Albanian ?

    Austrian rule in Kosovo was, in any case, extremely short-lived. After the disastrous defeat at Kacanik on 2 January 1690 (which is atrributed by some early account to disaffection among the 'Arnauts' on the Austrian side-though the most direct evidence we have makes no mention of this), the Austrians withdrew in confusion, and a joint Tatar-Ottoman force entered the region. Arsenije fled northwards from Peje; also making a rapid retreat to the north where the Austrian troops, plus some 'Rascians' and Arnauts, who had been stationed in Prizren together with the Catholic priest Toma Raspasani. As he later explained, the rest of the population stayed behind: 'Nobody was able to get out of Prizren or Peje they all remained prey to the barbarian'. The popular idea promoted by nineteenth-century writers and still encountered in the modern historical literature, that Arsenije led a great 'exodus' of his people out of Kosovo is thus simply false. He travelled to Belgrade, and spent most of the summer there; this strong-hold, still under Austrian control, was a natural destination for many Serb refugees, and those who gathered there during 1690 presumably included people from those parts of Kosovo (mainly the eastern half) from which it had been possible to escape from the Ottoman-Tatar incursion; but the majority of the refugees were probably from other areas.


    (In the record of a meeting of Serb dignitaries helf in Belgrade in June, the names of people from many parts
    of the Serb lands are specified, but, as it happens, no one from Kosovo apart from the Patriarch himself.)

    He had been in Montenegro and then went back to Peje and fled north to Belgrade. Never led any kind of revolt. No mention of him.
    All based on a text that says 'Patriarch of Kelmendi' when it is referring to the Albanian Catholic Pjeter Bogdani.

    Nothing but a bunch of fabrication of history that your people made famous and most of these so called ''historians'' never bothered studying the actual documents except for some like Noel Malcolm, MacShane, Johann Georg Von Hahn etc


    Just a bunch of stealing of Albanian history.

  3. #293
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    I am not sure what common knowledge you are talking about. This revolt was organized by Albanians

    Toma Raspasani (Italian: Tomasso Raspassani, c. 1648-17??) was an Albanian Franciscan friar and vicar, subordinate Pjetėr Bogdani, Archbishop of Skopje, with whom he organized an Albanian pro-Austrian movement that would fight in the Great Turkish War against the Ottoman Empire.
    Raspasani wrote in 1693 that many of the Catholics of Kosovo had left for Budapest, "where most of them died, some of hunger, others of disease".[14]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toma_Raspasani


    He contributed a force of 6,000 Albanian soldiers to the Austrian army which had arrived in Pristina and accompanied it to capture Prizren. There, however, he and much of his army were met by another equally formidable adversary, the plague. Bogdani returned to Pristina but succumbed to the disease there in 6 December 1689
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pjetėr_Bogdani

    It is some serious fabrication of history. Where they have claimed these people as Serbs and the guy who led the revolt as Arsenije, while some claimed all 3 were there.

    Many of the people they revolted with were other Muslim Albanians from Kosovo and Catholic and Muslim tribes from Northern Albania and some Serbs. Catholic Albanians by this time were a minority in Kosovo, and after the revolt there was heavy revenge on Catholic Albanians in Kosovo by the Ottomans.

    There were also people fighting on Mahmut Begolli's side.

    Just a bunch of fabrication of history. Arsenije Crnojevic fled to Belgrade from Montenegro and wrote himself that nobody was able to get out of Western Kosovo where the Austrians had arrived and met Albanians in Prizren. Most inhabitants there of West Kosova were also Albanians.


    Any idiot can easily debunk this nonsense. Why the fuck would a bunch of Albanians start descending from the mountains to supposedly fill a vacuum. They have tried to make it look like some religious war. Muslims vs Christians etc.

    Most of these so called historians who have written about Kosovo never bothered studying actual documents or papers from these times. They just repeat some shit some other guy said.


    Actual historians are rare but they do exist.
    Last edited by Wizz; 07-26-2022 at 11:07 PM.

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