What was the core of the original Magyars ?

[Jana]

New genetic papers confirm what the history told us: Hungarian conquerors were tribes from Eurasian steppes and Siberia of primarly mixed Ugric-Turkic oirigins.

The proto-Hungarians were apparently an ethnic blend of Ugric and Turkish peoples living in western Siberia.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hungarian-people

But between the 2, what do you think was the original core of Magyars, and who do you feel more affinity with ? It would be nice to state your reasons.
Both Hungarians and non-Hungarian members can offer their insight, but poll (which is public) is for Hungarian members only.

[Turul Karom]

All who are familiar with the forum will expect to know where some posters will fall in the polls, but there are critical aspects that science has indeed addressed.

I will address the matter WITHOUT wikipedia, by using real academic sources.

It is obvious that Ugric is the current largest language component by which is most commonly acknowledged in the west, but the largest minority-majority of words in the Hungarian lexicon are of "unknown origin" and therefore make the Ugric claim based on language alone dubious. This Ugric hegemony is also challenged by several Turkic supporters of both Hungarian and non-Hungarian ethnic origins.



No source but modern linguists claim Hungarians are Ugric, and wish to base it on language alone. We all know that nobody would consider myself, say, Swahili for speaking fluently in the Swahili language as my primary tongue, nor if our ancestors did 1000 years ago would they be seen as Swahili. Genetics and culture and religion, are all things that transcend language. Tengrism was the faith, steppe nomadism was the culture, and the vast majority of genetics overlap with Turkics rather than Ugrics, both past and modern. R1 branches are also far more common than N1 branches in Hungarian conqueror DNA, showing more steppe rather than Siberian influence.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...97997.full.pdf

[Turul Karom]

Ugrics were added over time and caused the mother tongue to develop as Ugric.

We moved further into the west as the various empires began to fall apart. The western Göktürk Khaganate, the Khazar Empire, etc, until we ended up raiding the Europeans from the Carpathian basin as a staging ground.

Although this is not from our time as part of the Göktürk Khaganate, one of the most important sources on our people early in our history is written by Muslim scholars a century or two later (and further).

The Magyars as Turks

Ibn Rusta: The Magyars are a Turkic people.
Gardīzī: These Magyars are a Turkic people.
Ḥudūd al-ʿālam: And all these whom we have mentioned are the different categories of Turks (existing in the) world. Now we shall mention all the lands of Islam, and then the rest of the lands of the infidels, lying in the western parts.
Abūʾl-Fidāʾ: They are a Turkic people.
al-Marwazī: The Magyars are a Turkic people.
ʿAwfī: The M.ḥr.f.h [Magyars] are a Turkic people.
Shukrallāh: The seventh tribe of the Turks is called M.ḥr.q.h
Shükrallāh: The seventh people are called M.ḥr.q.h. They are of the Turks.
Muḥammad Kātib: The seventh tribe are of the Turks, and they are known by the name M.ḥr.q.h
Ḥājjī Khalīfa: One (of them) is the M.ḥr.q.h. too.

"The designation of the Magyars is m.jf.r in the Jayhānī tradition. The Hungarians were mentioned under different ethnonyms in Muslim sources, among them “Turk," which also occurred in connection with the Magyars in Greek and Latin sources. In the Muslim geographical literature the name Turk was applied to the Magyars in two different ways. On the one hand, it was used as an ethnic name for the Hungarian tribal confederation, and on the other, the Hungarian people, under various ethnic names, were regarded as belonging to the Turkic peoples."

https://www.academia.edu/17517905/Mu...en_Boston_2015

[Dominator]

Magyars were originally Ugric, Turkic influence came later

[21993]

They were originally Stearsoid. Turkic and Uralic influences came later

Edit: Seriously answering, I think they were originally Uralic but Turkic influence came later.

[Mr.G]

I'm gonna say 50/50, because in my heart I really just don't know.

Turul makes a compelling case, and my G25 experience has demonstrated I have a small affinity for Tajiks/Turkmen. Tajik consistently improves my fit..

[PAGANE]

The Ogur people and probably related to the Proto-Bulgarians. The Onoguri tribal union, to which the Hungarians probably belonged in the 7th century. "Onoguria (Patria Onoguria, Patria Onoguria, Altyn Oba) is the ancient Bulgarian state that emerged after the collapse of the Hun state and was created by the young son of Attila, Irnik. This state existed from 462/465 to 520/522. From 520/530 to 630/632 the territory of Onoguria is called Patria Onoguria and the peoples there - Koutriguri, Utiguri and Onoguri or by the common name Bulgarians.

[Jana]

Turul, thank you for excellent posts. It is an excellent read and I hope more posts of similar quality will follow

[Turul Karom]

I'm gonna say 50/50, because in my heart I really just don't know.

Turul makes a compelling case, and my G25 experience has demonstrated I have a small affinity for Tajiks/Turkmen. Tajik consistently improves my fit..

Very true! How far back will we go to find non-Turkic proto-proto-proto-proto-Hungarians genetically clustering with non-Turkics? Eventually we will be in Africa! Ever since the founding of the name, the predominant group has been genetically and culturally Turkic with major Ugric influence along with Slavic and Germanic, with more of the final two post-settlement in the Carpathian Basin.

Árpád dynasty has same R1 DNA as Osman dynasty.

The Holy Crown will also always say it!

https://link.springer.com/article/10...520-018-0609-7

Faithful King of the Turks

[Jana]

I'm gonna say 50/50, because in my heart I really just don't know.

Turul makes a compelling case, and my G25 experience has demonstrated I have a small affinity for Tajiks/Turkmen. Tajik consistently improves my fit..

Interesting. This is best model for Stears, eastern Circassians especially, and than Tatars always improve his fit:

"sample": "Custom:Csaba_scaled",
"fit": 1.2806,

"HUN_Avar_Szolad": 45.83,
"DEU_MA": 29.17,
"ITA_Collegno_MA_o1": 10,
"Kabardin": 10,
"Tatar_Kazan": 5,