Steppe migration to India was between 3500-4000 years ago: David Reich

[Óttar]

Seeing as this Reich fellow is a geneticist at Harvard, I should mention that the Chair of the "South Asian Studies" Department (formerly the Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies) at Harvard is a vociferous supporter of the Aryan Migration theory. This has sparked the ire of Hindu Nationalist clowns who believe it is better to proliferate a useful lie than to accept the truth as it is. Their attacks are always full of ad hominem or other logical fallacies.

[Kamal900]

Indians are definitely amongst some of the best economic migrants

Dayum straight, son. I mean, had this country have had the Aframs of Hispanics from America then this nation is doomed, lol.

[tipirneni]

In Arvind Sharma's Hinduism as a Missionary Religion, he writes that from the earliest times, non-Aryans were assimilated into the Aryan system. Even the myth of Indra slaying the dragon asura Vritra says that the latter was a wayward priest. Sharma proposes that Vritra may have represented a non-Aryan who was a priest among his own people. When a non-Aryan was assimilated, they were often assigned the same caste as they retained in their original culture. This is a practice that persists to this day. A former professor of mine, a White American, was referred to as a Kshatriya by the Brahmin priest of the village where he did his PhD research. The Brahmin's reasoning was that Americans are off-shoots of the British, who came to India as soldiers. This was convenient for the Brahmin because it is the Kshatriyas who are responsible for sponsoring religious rites and festivals. Assimilation happened during all periods of Indian history from the Rig Veda (1500 BCE) to the Upanishads (~500BCE), to the Mughal period (~1300CE), and in overseas communities in Indonesia and SE Asia.

It is not so simple. There was long migration & assimilations of tribes such as Panis, Assurs etcs into 4 fold caste system, but those people already had their gods & workship set up from previous migrations from Iran & Irq. The early Vedic texts alludes of worship of Ashur god Varun who comes from the sea far west & rules them, which looks like the IVC people living on trade network with Mesopotamia & they probably had active trade leaders who are rich and who brought lot of things into the system. The later Vedic texts also then assimilates the local deities like Shiva & Durga.

[tipirneni]

Seeing as this Reich fellow is a geneticist at Harvard, I should mention that the Chair of the "South Asian Studies" Department (formerly the Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies) at Harvard is a vociferous supporter of the Aryan Migration theory. This has sparked the ire of Hindu Nationalist clowns who believe it is better to proliferate a useful lie than to accept the truth as it is. Their attacks are always full of ad hominem or other logical fallacies.

Migration is true. If you look at earliest tribes in India, like Kuruba & Vedda people they have H1 and F1 haplogroups nd mtDNA r30 and U1. There was bidirectional Neolithic Iran route at that time. These people DNA were found in Chalcolithic age sites in Iran and BMAC along with the Iranic J2a people. There was no R1a at that time, there was some L1 migrations who were assimilated into H1 people. Only after MLBA timeframe there you start to see R1 people coming into society and merging peacefully. Due to climate change there was migration further east on Ganges and creation of new society of R1a Steppe people & existing H1 hierarchy. These society were called Panis (trader soldiers) & Assurs (Kshetriyas) & Rakshasas (Kshetriyas) etc. & moved into 4 fold caste structure during the next Millenium (IA 1400BC to 200BC).

[Kamal900]

Migration is true. If you look at earliest tribes in India, like Kuruba & Vedda people they have H1 and F1 haplogroups nd mtDNA r30 and U1. There was bidirectional Neolithic Iran route at that time. These people DNA were found in Chalcolithic age sites in Iran and BMAC along with the Iranic J2a people. There was no R1a at that time, there was some L1 migrations who were assimilated into H1 people. Only after MLBA timeframe there you start to see R1 people coming into society and merging peacefully. Due to climate change there was migration further east on Ganges and creation of new society of R1a Steppe people & existing H1 hierarchy. These society were called Panis (trader soldiers) & Assurs (Kshetriyas) & Rakshasas (Kshetriyas) etc. & moved into 4 fold caste structure during the next Millenium (IA 1400BC to 200BC).

The migration theory is much more true than the invasion theory on my book.

[Óttar]

The migration theory is much more true than the invasion theory on my book.

The Aryan Migration theory is the successor to the Aryan Invasion theory. Hindu nationalists (Hindutvadis, followers of an ideology first developed in the 1930s by a quasi-fascist Veer Savarkar) point and say, "Look how at first it was the 'Aryan Invasion theory' and now it is the Aryan Migration Theory, this must be proof that the theory was wrong all along." as if fields of study don't develop the details of a theory after ~ 100 years in light of new evidence. The crackpot Hindutvadi theory, called the "Indigenous Origin Theory" is pure political propaganda based on nothing but Protestant Creationist style nonsense.

[Kamal900]

The Aryan Migration theory is the successor to the Aryan Invasion theory. Hindu nationalists (Hindutvadis, followers of an ideology first developed in the 1930s by a quasi-fascist Veer Savarkar) point and say, "Look how at first it was the 'Aryan Invasion theory' and now it is the Aryan Migration Theory, this must be proof that the theory was wrong all along." as if fields of study don't develop the details of a theory after ~ 100 years in light of new evidence. The crackpot Hindutvadi theory, called the "Indigenous Origin Theory" is pure political propaganda based on nothing but Protestant Creationist style nonsense.

Sadly, these nationalists are in power in India today.

[Óttar]

Sadly, these nationalists are in power in India today.

I think that Hindus need to organize themselves politically, but I am opposed to censorship, book-burnings, and the proliferation of anti-scientific crackpot theories.

[Kamal900]

I think that Hindus need to organize themselves politically, but I am opposed to censorship, book-burnings, and the proliferation of anti-scientific crackpot theories.

That, and I'm against Hindu nationalism against non-Hindus of India even though India was founded on secular principles and values.

[Sarmatian]

There were no invasion. Just migration, that's all. Remember, today's Indians regardless if they're Dravidians or Indo-Aryans are largely descended from the ancient peoples of the IVC. The reason why many Indians, especially Hindu nationalists, deny it is simply because they believe that they're the true natives of India while Muslims and others don't which is absurd considering that the basis of Hinduism and Sanskrit are from outside of India.

I'm not an expert on the issue. All I heard are legends.

One says in some areas all men and women were slaughtered, in other places only men, in most only men above 12.

Do you think such development could result in preservation of local DNA to its current proportion?