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Thread: Savolaxid examples

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    Default Savolaxid examples

    Cant find any good examples of savolaxids. Anyone have any good examples? Post em!


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    The Savolaxid type was named by the Swedish anthropologist Bertil Lundman after the Eastern Finnish region of "Savo" ("Savolax" in Swedish and "Savonia" in English).

    Lundman said that Savolaxids are smaller, less brachycephalic, and less blond than Tavastids (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/lundman-races.htm):

    In western and central Russia, northern Poland, and, still stronger, in Estonia and Finland, the East Baltid race is found. The East Baltids are light-blond, high-skulled and round-skulled (brachycephalic), with a broad angular face and a stub-nose (See Figure 5). This race is high in the frequency of blood type gene q. It is polymorphic (vielgestaltig). There are in Finland two subraces of the East Baltid race, a western Tavastid subrace (the Sub-Nordic race of Deniker?) and a more eastern Savolaxid subrace. The latter is smaller and somewhat less brachycephalic than the former, but almost just as blond.

    Here's Lundman's drawing of the East Baltid type:



    Ingrians were a group of Savonians who migrated from Savonia to Ingria in the 1600s. Ingria is between St. Petersburg and Estonia, and it is today part of Russia. All or almost all of the photos that are classified as being of Finns on the website of Kunstkamera are of Ingrians: http://collection.kunstkamera.ru/ent...507748&fund=44.

    Below are all photos from Kunstkamera which were classified as being of Finns and which feature the face of three or more people, apart from one photo where the face of no person was clearly visible. I cropped each photo around the heads of the persons in the photo. I can't really say how many of the people in the photos could be classified as Savolaxid, but they should be fairly representative of Savonians (or at least of Ingrians, who are Savonians slightly admixed with Russians).



    Below are images of the just the face of all females in the image above who I estimated to be between 15 and 45 years old. I think the persons who look better than average are also more likely to have Savolaxid features like prominent malars or a snub nose, and vice versa.



    I think this woman looks super-Savolaxid (even though she also looks more sub-Uralid than average Eastern Finns):

    Last edited by Ymyyakhtakh; 10-30-2019 at 07:14 AM.

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    Here's a Google translation of Lundman's description of East Baltid types from Nordens Rastyper (1940) (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/rastyper-04.htm):

    3. The East Baltic race (also called the Finnish race) has at least two types:

    a) the Tavastid type, below Swedish average length (c. 170 cm), especially broad-axis and coarse with short legs and medium arms. Head short (BLI c. 82-83) and high (HLI c. 76) with flat neck, moreover large wide and knotty (AI c. 85). Large square slightly flat face with steep profile, high wide forehead and wide angular and plump little protruding chin. Bottom wide but often pointed nose. The hair is grayish-yellow straight and the eyes are grayish-black, glossy, the slit is narrow, but not oblique. Eyebrows thin and beard weak. Rough, grayish-yellow complexion, slightly developed ear lip. Distribution: Western Finland, Western Estonia and although more rare west to Elbe.

    b) The Savolaxid type. [2] Straight small adult (c. 166 cm.), Head slightly short-bald (BLI c. 81-82) but its higher (HLI c. 77) (AI 80-85); face broad but not large; nose short and wide, less pointed than previous. Mostly blond, though, the hair often goes into a slightly darker cendre than the previous type. Distribution: east of the previous inward Russia, and south towards the Carpathians.

    [Footnote 2: Possibly, however, this type is initially an intermediate form between the Tavast type and one of some researchers adopted Northern Russian breed type: "the Fenno-Nordid".]


    East Baltic types from Norrbotten.


    East Baltic type from Haparanda.

    Original text:

    3. Östbaltiska rasen (även kallad den finska rasen) har åtminstone två typer:

    a) tavasttypen, under svensk medellängd (c. 170 cm.) undersätsig särskilt bredaxlad och grov med korta ben och medellånga armar. Huvudet kort (BLI c. 82-83) och högt (HLI c. 76) med platt nacke, f. ö. stort brett och knotigt (A I c. 85). Stort fyrkantigt något platt ansikte med brant profil, hög bred panna samt bred vinklig och plump föga framskjutande haka. Nedtill bred men ofta spetsig uppnäsa. Håret grågult rätt strävt och ögonen gråblacka, glanslösa, ögonspringan smal, men ej sned. Ögonbrynen tunna och skäggväxten svag. Grov, grågulaktig hy, svagt utvecklad örläpp. Utbredning: V. Finland, V. Estland och ehuru sällsyntare väster ut till Elbe.

    b) Savolaxtypen. [2] Rätt småvuxen (c. 166 cm.), huvudet svagt kortskalligt (BLI c. 81-82) men dess mer högt (HLI c. 77) (A I 80-85); ansiktet brett men ej stort; näsan kort och bred, mindre spetsig än hos föregående. Mest blond, fast håret väl ofta går i något mörkare cendré än hos föregående typ. Utbredning: öster om föregående inåt Ryssland, och söder ut mot Karpaterna.

    [Footnote 2: Möjligen är dock denna typ från början en mellanform mellan tavasttypen och en av en del forskare antagen nordrysk rastyp: "den fennonordiska".]

    Here's East Baltid examples from SNPA (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/rg-east.htm):

    Last edited by Ymyyakhtakh; 10-30-2019 at 02:52 PM.

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    What about this guy, where would you think he is from?




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    I first used a script like this to find photos that were classified as being of ethnic Karelians (not Finnish Karelians) from the website of the Finnish National Board of Antiquities:

    Code:
    for p in {1..68};do curl -s "https://www.kuvakokoelmat.fi/pictures/search?hakuehto_1=kansaheimo&hakusana_1=%22karjalaiset%22&page=$p"|pup '.preview attr{name}';done
    I then used OpenCV to detect the coordinates of faces in the photos:

    Code:
    import cv2
    import sys
    
    face_cascade=cv2.CascadeClassifier('/usr/local/opt/opencv/share/opencv4/haarcascades/haarcascade_frontalface_default.xml')
    for a in sys.argv[1:]:
        img=cv2.imread(a)
        gray=cv2.cvtColor(img,cv2.COLOR_BGR2GRAY)
        faces=face_cascade.detectMultiScale(gray,1.3,5)
        for(x,y,w,h)in faces:
            print(a,x,y,w,h)
    I cropped faces out of the images by using ImageMagick:

    Code:
    <facecoordinates awk '{printf"%04d ",NR;print$1,1.4*$4"x"1.8*$5"+"$2-.2*$4"+"$3-.4*$5}'|parallel -C\  convert {2} -crop {3} +repage cropped/{1}.png
    OpenCV did not find all of the faces in the photos, but I went through all images found by OpenCV, so that I selected images which actually featured a face, which were not very low-quality, and which featured a person who I estimated to be between approximately 15 and 45 years old. I did not exclude any other images.

    Again, the persons in the image below are not necessarily typical Savolaxids or even East Baltids, but they should be fairly representative of Karelians.



    This Karelian man has a distinctly Finnish look, but I don't know if he looks particularly Savolaxid as opposed to East Baltid in general. However he does have very prominent malars and he has a snub nose. He has a large jaw, but his chin is not very prominent.


    https://www.kuvakokoelmat.fi/pictures/view/SUK475_94
    Last edited by Ymyyakhtakh; 10-30-2019 at 04:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benyzero View Post
    What about this guy, where would you think he is from?



    He looks a little neo danubian, but in a scandinavian way. Im a little new to phenology, so i might be off


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    Quote Originally Posted by beas2142 View Post
    Cant find any good examples of savolaxids. Anyone have any good examples? Post em!
    Finnish former racing driver Mika Häkkinen springs to mind.

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    I downloaded all photos that were classified as being of Karelians from the website of Kunstkamera: http://collection.kunstkamera.ru/ent...499444&fund=44.

    This time I manually cropped out faces from the photos instead of using OpenCV. Below are the faces of all persons whose photo was fairly high-quality, whose face was clearly visible, and who I estimated to be between 15 and 45 years old. Some of the persons in the images below might be Russians, Finns, or Vepsians. The images below contain a few duplicates from my first post in this thread, because a few of the photos which I posted earlier were classified as being of both Karelians and Finns. I attempted to exclude the images of persons whose face was included in another image, but a few persons might still be included in two or more images.




    A lot of the most kawaii girls look East Baltid or Savolaxid:



    Quote Originally Posted by Alenka View Post
    Finnish former racing driver Mika Häkkinen springs to mind.
    The name Häkkinen actually comes from Savo. Finnish surnames that end in "-nen" generally originated in Eastern Finland. Mika Häkkinen was born in Western Finland however, so I don't know how much Eastern Finnish ancestry he has.

    This map shows where people with the surname Häkkinen were born between the years 1884 and 1934 (https://www.tuomas.salste.net/suku/nimi/haekkinen.html):


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    Here's Finnish football players who I think look stereotypically East Baltid, because they look distinctly Finnish, or because they have a wide face, Asian-like eyes, a concave nose, or prominent cheekbones. I can't tell if they look Savolaxid or not, but if Savolaxid is interpreted to be a more extreme form of East Baltid, then I guess so.

    I found the players on this website: https://fmdataba.com/20/n/70/finland/best-players/.

    curl -s https://fmdataba.com/20/n/70/finland/best-players/{0..12}|pup 'a attr{href}'|grep /p/|cut -d/ -f6|sed 's,.*,https://fmdataba.com/images/p/&.png,'



    Finland-Swedes are highly overrepresented among football players in Finland. The following players are very likely to be Finland-Swedes, because they have a Swedish-sounding name, they come from a Swedish-speaking locality, they spoke Swedish in an interview, or they wrote in Swedish on social media: Tobias Fagerström, Benjamin Källman, Sebastian Strandvall, Adam Vidjeskog, and Jesse Öst.

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    Lundman (1950) (Anthropological Maps of the Nordic Countries) wrote that he divided Eastern Finns and Western Finns into two different subraces because of differences in stature:

    As already mentioned, east of the Baltic Sea the cephalic index and percentage of q rise, and stature and heads become shorter simultaneously, but the eye colors remain almost as light. This is the territory of the east-Europid (or east-Baltic) race, which, because of their very different stature, I have divided into two subraces, namely, the Tawastid (or west-Finnish) in the west and the Savolaxid (or east-Finnish) in the east.

    Therefore perhaps stature should be seen as an important criterion for differentiating between the Tavastid and Savolaxid types.

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