were early Slavs just mongrel/watered down Balts?

[Crn Volk]

Golden Lining isn't turkish.

Turks of Germany speak fluent German, as well as making good kebabs

[Blondie]

Turks of Germany speak fluent German, as well as making good kebabs

Not all can speak german fluently, and half years ago we have talked a little bit and he was friendly, i don't think he's turksh.

[Jana]

He is a ossie white trash. They are second rate Germans.

[Crn Volk]

Not all can speak german fluently, and half years ago we have talked a little bit and he was friendly, i don't think he's turksh.

Ok let's see

[Token]

I don't understand your reasoning.

[21993]

Two early Slavs from Bohemia

Two Bohemian Bell Beaker genomes from Allentoft et al. 2015 - RISE568 and RISE569 - are labeled as early Czech Slavs in the new Mathieson et al. 2017 preprint (see rows 148 and 149 in the spreadsheet here).

Obviously these samples were initially wrongly dated to the Bronze Age and misidentified. They really date to 600-900 CE and 660-770 calCE, respectively. It's an unfortunate mistake, but also an interesting situation, because they've been analyzed in great detail in several papers and on this blog, and no one suspected that anything was wrong.

So the fact that these two Medieval Slavs from East Central Europe passed so convincingly for eastern Bell Beakers is a hint of very strong genetic continuity in the region since the Bronze Age. Indeed, they're very similar to present-day Czechs, western Poles (from Poznan), and eastern Germans, except perhaps with lower excess Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG) ancestry and higher Yamnaya-related ancestry.

https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/...m-bohemia.html

[Jana]

I don't understand your reasoning.

Hmm. Balts seem purer, both genetically and linguistically (and in comparison with North Slavs). Ignoring N haplogroup, autosomally they are very much NE Europeans without much admixture.

Lithuanian is also most arhaic IE language in Europe. I feel, they may represent more preserved group and Slavic language branched off from Balto-Slavic after assimilating western non IE I2a groups.

Phenotype too. Baltid which is considered epitome of true Slavic look is actually much more common in Balts and named after region they inhabit.

I don't discuss south slavs here btw, as we are very diluted.

[Jana]

Two early Slavs from Bohemia

Two Bohemian Bell Beaker genomes from Allentoft et al. 2015 - RISE568 and RISE569 - are labeled as early Czech Slavs in the new Mathieson et al. 2017 preprint (see rows 148 and 149 in the spreadsheet here).

Obviously these samples were initially wrongly dated to the Bronze Age and misidentified. They really date to 600-900 CE and 660-770 calCE, respectively. It's an unfortunate mistake, but also an interesting situation, because they've been analyzed in great detail in several papers and on this blog, and no one suspected that anything was wrong.

So the fact that these two Medieval Slavs from East Central Europe passed so convincingly for eastern Bell Beakers is a hint of very strong genetic continuity in the region since the Bronze Age. Indeed, they're very similar to present-day Czechs, western Poles (from Poznan), and eastern Germans, except perhaps with lower excess Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG) ancestry and higher Yamnaya-related ancestry.

https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/...m-bohemia.html

These were already bit admixed. Avar Szolad samples from Hungary are purer.

[vbnetkhio]

Discuss.

i think they are, everything points in that direction.
the av2 sample can be modeled as iron/bronze age Baltic + Germanic + Celtic in global 25.
and the i2-din haplogroup probably originated from modern day Germany and brought this Germanic+Celtic.

mongrel/watered down sounds negative btw, i would rather say hybrids, fusion or something.

[Token]

Hmm. Balts seem purer, both genetically and linguistically (and in comparison with North Slavs). Ignoring N haplogroup, autosomally they are very much NE Europeans without much admixture.

Lithuanian is also most arhaic IE language in Europe. I feel, they may represent more preserved group and Slavic language branched off from Balto-Slavic after assimilating western non IE I2a groups.

Phenotype too. Baltid which is considered epitome of true Slavic look is actually much more common in Balts and named after region they inhabit.

I don't discuss south slavs here btw, as we are very diluted.

Slavic drifted away from Baltic under influence of some kind of Centum Indo-European language, and that might have also involved gene flow. Vistula Veneti might have been Celtic or Italo-Celtic speakers based on hydronyms around the Odra and Vistula, and it is well known that Vistula Veneti accompanied Slavs in their dispersions to the south. The Slavic migrations were accompanied by drastic changes in phonology (palatalization, lenition of voiced consonants, etc.) and Northern Adriatic Venetic share the properties that were introduced into Slavic at that time, which might also imply that Vistula Veneti were related to the Veneti in Gaul. That is the mainstream perspective among linguists right now.