Haplogroup C-M401 among Mongols

[Shubotai]

For clarification purposes, the term Mongolians will be used just for Mongolia and Inner Mongolia, while the term Mongols for all Mongols regardless of place of origin.

Haplogroup C-M401 is found with a frequency 15% in Mongolians, 13% in Kyrgyz, 25% in Kazakhs, 33% in Hazara and 40% in Uzbeks in Afganistan, 10% in Nogai in Russia, 4% in Turkmens, 7% in Pakistani, 0.7% in northern Han. C-M504* is also found in Mongolians and in northern China. Given its moderate frequency in Mongolia but also its presence in peoples historically associated with Mongol origins like Jalair tribe in Kazakhstan or the Hazara in Afghanistan is the haplogroup best associated with original Mongols and is none other than the so called C2*-starcluster, previously C3*-starcluster or alternative mutation F4002.

The distribution of the starcluster C-M401 matches the extension of the Mongol empire at the time of Chinggis Khaan.

The ISOGG 2018 haplogroup C tree of C-M504, the marker most commonly found in Mongolians is:

• • • • • C2b1a3 M504
• • • • • C2b1a3~ AM01318/CTS5559/PF4730/Z1866, F914, F966, F1918, F2007, F2914, F3747, F3770, F3779, F3791, F3795, F3810, F3827, F3897, F3919, F3932, F3939, F3945, F3991, F4023, F4031, F4141, FGC16301/Y4523, FGC16306/SK1068/Y4527, FGC16313/Y4532, FGC16318/Y4536, FGC16319/Y4537, FGC16323/F9989/Y4464, FGC16326, FGC16328/SK1075/Y4541, FGC16329/Y4542, FGC16330, FGC16332/Y4544, FGC16335, FGC16336, FGC16349, FGC16361, FGC16365, FGC16377/Y4558, FGC16381, FGC16394, FC16397/Y4570, FGC16402, FGC16403/Y4576, FGC16411/Y4580, FGC16412/Y4581, FGC16422/F12057/Y8801, FGC16424/Y4589, FGC16437/Y4597, FGC16440/SK1067/Y6719, FGC16445/F12443/Y8813, FGC16447, FGC16448/Y4602, FGC16450/Y4605, FGC16453/Y4606, FGC16456/Y4608, FGC16460/Y4611, FGC16467/Y4614, FGC16469, FGC16470, FGC16471, FGC16472/Y4617, FGC16475/Y4620, FGC16476/Y4621, FGC16481/Y4626, FGC16486/Y4630, FGC16489/Y4633, FGC16492/Y4636, FGC16496/Y4639, FGC16502, FGC16508/Y4645, FGC16509/Y4646, FGC16512/Y4649, FGC16513, FGC16586/F10157/Y8781, FGC16596, Y4601, Y8789
• • • • • • C2b1a3a M401
• • • • • • • C2b1a3a1~ F3796, F4002, F12021/FGC16418/Y11098, F12308/FGC16431/Y1112
• • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a~ F9700/FGC16305/Y4526, F10216/FGC16336/Y8818, F10312/FGC16342/Y8792, F11134/Y8798, F11271/FGC16596/Y8808, F11508/FGC16387/Y4565, F11899/FGC16411/Y4580, F12521/FGC16447/Y8784, F12844/FGC16470/Y8821, F13055/FGC16486/Y4630, F13100/FGC16489/Y4633, F13923/FGC16526/Y8791, FGC16467/Y4614, FGC16509/Y4646, FGC16595/Y11097
• • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a1~ FGC16594/Y11137
• • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a1a~ Y20085
• • • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a1a1~ Y20087
• • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a2~ Z43948, Z43949, Z43950, Z43951, Z43952
• • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a3~ F5481/FGC16328/SK1075/Y4541
• • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a3a Y12782
• • • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a3a1~ Z31703, Z31704, Z31705, Z31706, Z31707
• • • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a3a2 F5483/SK1074
• • • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a3a3~ Z44371, Z44372, Z44373
• • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a3b~ F10091/ZQ31, F11945, F13625
• • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a3c~ SK1076
• • • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a3c1~ SK1077
• • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a3d~ FGC16217, Y136036, Y136045, Y136046, Y136048
• • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a4~ F9747, F10981, F11791/ZQ319, F11978
• • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a4a~ F10001, F10868, F12703
• • • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a4a1~ F11885, F12330
• • • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a4a2~ F14806
• • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a4b~ F14768
• • • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1a4c~ BY31/F14779, F14763, F14770, F14772, F14778, SK1408.2
• • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1b~ F3960, F10077
• • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1b1~ F2763.2, F3845.2/L598.2
• • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1b2~ CTS9894.2/M3574.2/PF3036.2
• • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1c~ F10374, F12634/FGC27183/V3788, SK1072, SK1073
• • • • • • • • C2b1a3a1c1~ F11313, F11838, F12663, F12867
• • • • • • • C2b1a3a2~ F10283, F11301, F12257, F13806
• • • • • • • • C2b1a3a2a~ F14749, F14751, F14752, F14760, F14766, F14769, F14771, F14776, F14782, F14783, F14784, F14785, F14798, F14799, F14800
• • • • • • • • • C2b1a3a2a1~ F14750
• • • • • • C2b1a3b~ SK1069, SK1070
• • • • • • C2b1a3c~ SK1071


The subclades of Haplogroup C-M401 would be the best connected the dispersal of various Mongolic languages. The subclace F12308 should be the marker of main mongolic languages today like Khalkha and Oirat which all come from Middle Mongol language. The subclade F10283 is found among Daur, who are believed to descend from Karakhitai, a para-mongolic speaking people. So this subclade could represent para-mongolic languages. It is also the marker of the Qing dynasty, which had a Daur background, although Manchu were mainly C-M48. Main Oirat haplogroup is also C-M48.

On a sidenote, some changes from Middle Mongol to Khalkha language concern vowel harmony, for example the loss of ğ leading to long vowels:
nogoğon -> nogoon
ulağan -> ulaan
bağatur -> baatar
khağan -> khaan

This might lead to a new vowel harmony:
nogoon -> nogon
ulaan -> ulan
baatar -> batar
khaan -> khan

There are various classification schemes for the modern Mongolic languages. One of them is:

Mongolic

Daur (96,000 speakers)
Central Mongolic
Khamnigan (2,000 speakers)
Buryat (330,000 speakers)
Mongolian proper (5.2 million speakers)
Eastern and Central dialect
Khalkha
Chakhar
Khorchin
Ordos (123,000 speakers)
Oirat (including Kalmyk) (360,000 speakers)
Southern Mongolic (part of a Gansu–Qinghai Sprachbund)
Shira Yugur (4,000 speakers)
Shirongolic
Monguor (150,000 speakers)
Bonan (6,000 speakers)
Santa (Dongxiang) (200,000 speakers)
Kangjia (1,000 speakers)
Moghol (200 speakers)


1. Y-DNA Haplogroup C and its Subclades - 2018
2. Whole-sequence analysis indicates that the Y chromosome C2*-Star Cluster traces back to ordinary Mongols, rather than Genghis Khan
3. Molecular Genealogy of a Mongol Queen’s Family and Her Possible Kinship with Genghis Khan
4. Distribution of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups of the Kazakh from the South Kazakhstan, Zhambyl, and Almaty Regions
5. Afghanistan's Ethnic Groups Share a Y-Chromosomal Heritage Structured by Historical Events
6. Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge
7. Paternal Population History of East Asia: Sources, Patterns, and Microevolutionary Processes

[Kaspias]

What about Q?

[Leto]

What can you say about C-F4002? Is it Mongolian?

[Shubotai]

All existing Q subclades were found in Mongolia and the broader area of South Siberia in ancient times, but they are better ascribed to Xiongnu who were in control of Mongolia before, also in other siberian groups. In Mongolia Q-L330 1.4-3.1%, Q-M120 0.25-1.25%, Q-M25 0.25-0.63%, total 4-5% Q. Research on ancient Xiongnu tombs revealed 6 Q1a*, 4 Q1b, 2 Q*. Today Q-L330 is mostly found in Yeniseian groups like Ket, but the Xiongnu were also probably Yeniseian speaking, so it's maybe the most important Q subclade for Mongols. Like C-M504, D-M533, Q-L330 has a big number of initial mutations followed by lesser mutations in its subclades, pointing maybe to an initial shock of the most recent common ancestor upon the climate.

Other subclades would inlude Q-M25, the original haplogroup of the Turks, who were working in the iron mines in the Altai first for the Xiongnu, then for the Ashina clan who deserted the Xiongnu. The Ashina clan was R-Z93, whereas the clan who provided women for them, the Ashide, were Q-L54. The subclade Q-L275, carried by various groups going by the name of Khazar. The subclade Q-M120 of Q-NWT01, prominent in Inuit, is found along the Great Wall, but also in Yunnan and Inner Mongolia. When the Eskimo-Aleut substratum in north China is fully uncovered, this relation will be established. And even subclades which remind of Native American haplogroups, Q-M3, Q-Z780, Q-L804.

Also this thread about Q in Turkic peoples: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...Turkic-peoples


The mutation C-F4002 had initially a status equivalent to C-M504, but was later degraded to C-M401 and now degraded as a subclade of C-M401 in the same level with F12308. In all three stages being under C-M504 is related to Mongols. As stated the confusion could come from the fact that haplogroups born in Mongolia have a long number of initial mutations, followed by random changes. Not that a haplogroup can really belong to a nation or language, it is nations or languages that belong to haplogroups, since they are cultural products, but yes. The stacluster will be referred to many times by researches as C-F4002 rather than C-M401.

[Leto]

I posted a Southwestern Russian guy with C-F4002. The irony is that autosomally he is very Slavic and scores barely 3% Mongoloid

[AraKaya]

Hi !

[Sora]

Hi !

안녕하세요! ^.^ 정말 한국사람이세요?

[Chelubey]

Also this thread about Q in Turkic peoples: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...Turkic-peoples
Tatars and Bashkirs display high frequencies (up to 15%) for haplogroup Q

It's some mistake. Bashkirs have less than 1% of hg Q. Volga Tatars - 3%. Crimean tatars is also a bit. Lithuanian Tatars -10%. Perhaps some sub-ethnic groups of Siberian Tatars have up to 15%. (Russian slavic have 1.5 % of hg Q, Kirgiz and Kazakh - 3-4%,Noghay-0%, Mongols - 6%).
Too few turkic owners of hg Q to be proto-turkic hg. Perhaps the turkic owners of the Mongolian subclades of the hg C are several times more than the owners of the hg Q.

[AraKaya]

네 한국인 입니다 ㅋㅋ

[Sora]

네 한국인 입니다 ㅋㅋ

답변이 너무 늦어서 죄송합니다 ㅠㅠ 만나서 반갑습니다 ^.^