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Thread: Classify Dagestani singer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajimurad View Post
    Because some Caucasians (especially living in Turkey) want to accociate themselves with great Turkic empires. This is similar to Black Americans, claiming Ancient Egypt as theirs and Nordicists, claiming Ancient Greece and Rome. These Caucasians even claim Turanid-looking tribal Turkics (Kazakh, Uzbek or Bashkir) as Mongol-Chinese half-breeds.
    Could you help me with advice for my phenotype calculator?
    I used Nogay as source population for Turanid phenotype, and Georgians Imen for mtebids. Are Georgians most mtebid population in Caucasus or I can use better examples?

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    Senior Member Hajimurad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feiichy View Post
    Caspid. I think he is good example of Caspian phenotype, which is quite common in northeast Caucasus.
    He isn't of Caspian phenotype, because he is brachycephalic and alpinized. The so-called Caspian phenotype is a part of Iranid, which common in Azerbaijan and South Daghestan (among Lezgins and Kumyks).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyp Snow View Post
    Azerbaijan

    Thanks

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    Last question: which is better for Caspid, regular Azeri or Azeri Dagestan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feiichy View Post
    Last question: which is better for Caspid, regular Azeri or Azeri Dagestan?
    Tough question. Not too familiar with Dagestan Azeris. I think Dagestani Azeris are more Mtebid than Caspid.
    MT :[Viking Danish + Frank] + [Ottoman + Safavid]
    Eu13: Austrian + Azerbaijani
    Eu15: German_Bavarian + Azerbaijani_Turkey
    Harappa: n-european + Azeri
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    puntDNAL k12: Dutch_South + Turkish
    MDLPWORLD: German_V + Turk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feiichy View Post
    Could you help me with advice for my phenotype calculator?
    I used Nogay as source population for Turanid phenotype, and Georgians Imen for mtebids. Are Georgians most mtebid population in Caucasus or I can use better examples?
    Most unmixed Mtebid populations are Vaynakhs (Chechens and Ingush) and peoples of mountain Daghestan (Laks, Avars, Darghins and related to them tribes), among Georgians - Svans and Khevsurs. Georgians of Imereti aren't Mtebid but belong to so-called Colchian type (Armenoid-Pontid mix).

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    Thank you a lot both! This will improve my calculator

  8. #38
    𐱅𐰀𐰤𐰏𐰼𐰃:𐰋𐰃𐰔:𐰢𐰀𐰤𐰀𐰤
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    Alpine + Mtebid with some CM influences.

    https://resmim.net/f/PBYW0y.jpeg
    22 May 1912, Ayn Mansur
    ★★★

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajimurad View Post
    How Caucasian Avar may be Turkic if they:
    1) don't have Turkic Y-DNA (R1a, R1b-m73, Q and N1 haplogroups)?
    2) doesn't descend from Turkic tribes (Kangly, Kipchak, Qajar, Afshar etc)?
    3) doesn't resemble tribal Turkics (Kazakhs, Nogays)?
    4)speak a language akin to Darghin, Lak or Chechen languages?

    Majority of your beloved islamophobes hate Turkey because it's rump state of Ottoman caliphate. Great Turkic empires were created by Muslim Oghuz and Karluk Turkics, not by pagan Turkics (except short-lived Hun and Kokturk khanates). Seljuk, Ottoman, Safavi, Moghul, Qarakhanid, Ghaznavi and Khwarizm empires were created by Muslim Turks, which you hate. Your ancestors came as Muslim muhajirs and were accepted by Muslim caliph. It's very funny how Turkic nationalists, who have dubious origin, accuse Ottoman sultans (who came from Turkmen Kayi tribe) as being anti-Turkish, because of their religion.
    Although I like Turkic history and culture but I don't want appropriate this culture unlike self-hating anti-Caucasian pseudo-Turks, who call aborigines of Caucasus as Gypsies and claim Nogays and Kazakhs as Mongol-Chinese half-breeds.
    Are you Polkovnik? No Avar that I’ve ever known speak or sound like this … maybe another troll.. anyway, your words about Ottomans and Turkish people reveal your agenda and you cant fool me with this bullshit like you can the europeans, go on working on them but be prepared to be attacked by a she-wolf when you are talking about her ancestors! You may be anything, even a gypsy I don’t care but I am a proud Avar girl whose ancestors as White Huns came from northern India to northern Caucasia as Avars and before that there were Kimmers there, a branch of Sarmatians, so they were proto-Turks. Even the name of Gimri, like said By Assyrian sources, where Samil was born reflects this name. So my family and people who arrived in Istanbul a hundred year ago were NOT just some noname 'muslims' but they knew who they were and where they were going, Sultan Resat placed them nearby Istanbul as he learnt they were Avars. He let them choose any place they wish around Yalova and they chose highland forest as it reminded home.

    Also Avars are being invited cordially to Kurultaj, the ancestral gathering of Hunnic nations, every two years. Is it only because they bear the name of a glorious Turkic people by chance? The info you gave above is so cliche, is it the only knowledge you have? It is miserable and skindeep, you try to prove me false with this info? You dont even know Magyars and Avars settled in Dagestan for some time, I would never reply to an ignorant like you if I didnt feel an urge to make explanations for others. See these:

    Avar Movement 6.century.PNG
    its in Russian for you : D

    file:///C:/Users/hp/Downloads/Huns_a...e_Caucasus.pdf

    And the ancient Turkic tamga (meaning ‘core’) found carved in the Dagestan mountains also found in the Hunzakh flag:

    Avar swastika.jpg
    Swastika_avarian_Dagh.jpg
    Silver Wolf flag of Avar Khanate.jpg

    All the Avars I spoke confirmed the meaning of Hunzakh (‘from the Huns’), even the ones in Avaria in Dagestan. Everybody knows the meaning of silver wolf on flag, right? We have the same gold-silver and bone/horn mastery like our elite ancestors from steppes, and in my village I grew up seeing the Avar horns decoreated with silver on our walls, just like Magyar horns. We used to listen to our two-string Khumuz (Kopuz)/Tamur in our dances when I was a child, which definitely reflects our Turkic past! My people loved horses and ate even horse-flesh in certain occasions while they were keeping it as dried in the step way.

    Academics like Haral Haarman, Omeljan Pritsak and Timur Aytberov say contemporary Avars come from Avar elites that mixed with local people there. Menandros Protector as well as Oljas Suleimanov and some Turkish academics write Avars arrived in northern Caucasia and repelled Sabirs out of Caucasus and caused Onogurs, Kutrigurs and Saragurs to move to west around 552-557
    Oh, btw I am not writing these to convince you, if you are real Avar you should already know them. These are for other readers

    .. and as for the answers:
    1.What is Turkic y-DNA? Is there only one? who says that? I have been researching and learning about it more for a while and results are very interesting: Q is not Turkic, it is Mongol while R1 and N1 are so but J1 is also proto-Turkic as it descends from Sarmatians who ruled the area for a long time. Genealogy experts I am currently in touch with say this is how it must have happened according to the historical movements and the area J1 occupies today. There is R1 in Dagestan too, low % ofc but most probably Avar elites who stayed there mixed with Sarmatian origin people and even from the ones from south in time. This is my idea and I keep on researching

    2. Apparently they the only tribes that you know of Turkics but you confuse the time and series of them. We descend from Avars and Avars were from Hun stock, before them were the Ting-ling and Kangli. The others you mentioned are younger tribes. Menandros and Simokattes say Avars ara also related to Ogurs

    3.resemble Turkics? Are you serious? There are so many Turanid looking people in my village, but genuine Avars are not only Turanid looking but mostly north Pontid, CM and even have got some nordic traits to some extent. Mtebid belongs to Dargins and other lowland peoples mostly

    4.ok, language: Both Avarian and Turkish are agglutinative languages although there is insignificant gender in Avarian possibly passed from trying to write and speak the langauge like arabs after turning Islam in 12.century. In the highlands languages changes easily, however, he main verbs like ‘behol’ = bol = ol (to be) and ‘balakh’=bak (look) are the same in Avar and Turkish languages, and even these two are enough to prove the common origin, but there are many unloanable common words like Juy=Şey (thing), tsak=ok (many) and some colours like kah(ila)=kk(sl) (blue) and ara=kara (black) along with numbers

    I am not self-hating but self-aware while you are a subconscious self-hater who claim to come from some Iranics or Arabs, lol, these are your words so, its not me but you who disgrace his ancestors. Thank god I have got other Avar friends from Dagestan who love Turkish people and listen to me with repsect when I give lectures them about 'real' history, but of course they are not 'in charge' like you, they are genuine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hajimurad View Post
    Calling as Turkic is same as calling Latin American Indians as Spaniards. I never prefer to be a Gypsy because I respect my ancestors unlike you.
    Very funny majority of Pashtuns and Tajiks genetically share same paternal haplogroup as Kazan Tatars and Chuvash(R1a-Z2124), who are descendants of Bulgars. Avars of Daghestan doesn't have this haplogroup. And our J1 haplogroup isn't Semitic by origin but comes from our true Caucasian-speaking ancestors.
    No, first of all replace your senseless sentence above with ‘saying Avars today are not related to Avar Kghanate is same as saying Bulgars today are not related to Bulgar Kghanate’. You have no idea about your ancestors, their migration routes and origin. Why do you think that there exist red hair and light eyes among some northern Indians along with R1a and R1b? It comes from Huns settled in northern India and western Turkstan region, they carried them to Caucasus and Europe and mixed with the locals there, scientific fact, you just need to read some articles. If you dont want, its your problem

    Avars are not like you, I know how they behave and sound (for I have many of them as family and friends from both Turkey and Russia), especially when it comes to Turkey and Turks. If you really an Avar, show it, instead of fighting with me respect me with your manners and learn about your origins well

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buusra View Post
    Are you Polkovnik? No Avar that I’ve ever known speak or sound like this … maybe another troll.. anyway, your words about Ottomans and Turkish people reveal your agenda and you cant fool me with this bullshit like you can the europeans, go on working on them but be prepared to be attacked by a she-wolf when you are talking about her ancestors! You may be anything, even a gypsy I don’t care but I am a proud Avar girl whose ancestors as White Huns came from northern India to northern Caucasia as Avars and before that there were Kimmers there, a branch of Sarmatians, so they were proto-Turks. Even the name of Gimri, like said By Assyrian sources, where Samil was born reflects this name. So my family and people who arrived in Istanbul a hundred year ago were NOT just some noname 'muslims' but they knew who they were and where they were going, Sultan Resat placed them nearby Istanbul as he learnt they were Avars. He let them choose any place they wish around Yalova and they chose highland forest as it reminded home.
    No, I'm not polkovnik because I never served in Russian army or police.
    Proud Avar girl who don't know Avar language hahahaha..... Do you know Avars never pronounced Gimri but Genub (from Geni "pear"). Only Avar-hating freaks like Kamil Aliyev or Abdulnasyr Kadyrov (they both aren't Avars, but Kumyks of Darghin origin) can make such wild statements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buusra View Post
    Also Avars are being invited cordially to Kurultaj, the ancestral gathering of Hunnic nations, every two years. Is it only because they bear the name of a glorious Turkic people by chance? The info you gave above is so cliche, is it the only knowledge you have? It is miserable and skindeep, you try to prove me false with this info? You dont even know Magyars and Avars settled in Dagestan for some time, I would never reply to an ignorant like you if I didnt feel an urge to make explanations for others. See these:

    Avar Movement 6.century.PNG
    its in Russian for you : D

    file:///C:/Users/hp/Downloads/Huns_a...e_Caucasus.pdf

    And the ancient Turkic tamga (meaning ‘core’) found carved in the Dagestan mountains also found in the Hunzakh flag:

    Avar swastika.jpg
    Swastika_avarian_Dagh.jpg
    Silver Wolf flag of Avar Khanate.jpg

    All the Avars I spoke confirmed the meaning of Hunzakh (‘from the Huns’), even the ones in Avaria in Dagestan. Everybody knows the meaning of silver wolf on flag, right? We have the same gold-silver and bone/horn mastery like our elite ancestors from steppes, and in my village I grew up seeing the Avar horns decoreated with silver on our walls, just like Magyar horns. We used to listen to our two-string Khumuz (Kopuz)/Tamur in our dances when I was a child, which definitely reflects our Turkic past! My people loved horses and ate even horse-flesh in certain occasions while they were keeping it as dried in the step way.
    I live in Kizilyurt district where been Belenjer (capital of Khazaria). Last remnants of Khazars after Arab wars were annihilated by Kipchaks. When my ancestors came from mountains and founded Miaqu (Russian-Kumyk Miatli) settlement they crushed Kipchak balbal (heathen idol) and made this land Caucasian and Islamic. Khunzakh (not Hunzakh) was vassal of Khazaria and Golden Horde, whose rulers want to make free mountaineers into their subjects. But our tribal republics based on military democracy won over these invaders. Wolf with swastika flag is a symbol of Khunzakh khanate not of our tribal republics (Akhwakh, Andi, Dido, Hindalal/Koysubu, Baqt'hukkh/Gunbet, Naqbakh/Salatau and others). Elite of Khunzakh khanate was Turkicized by culture and was seen as alien by majority of Avars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buusra View Post
    Academics like Haral Haarman, Omeljan Pritsak and Timur Aytberov say contemporary Avars come from Avar elites that mixed with local people there. Menandros Protector as well as Oljas Suleimanov and some Turkish academics write Avars arrived in northern Caucasia and repelled Sabirs out of Caucasus and caused Onogurs, Kutrigurs and Saragurs to move to west around 552-557
    Oh, btw I am not writing these to convince you, if you are real Avar you should already know them. These are for other readers
    Excuse me, but Bulgars are Turkic nomadic tribes from Siberia. Avars are aborigines of Caucasus. If you forgot language of your ancestors and often confuse Caucasian Avars with Pannonian Avars it's your problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buusra View Post
    1.What is Turkic y-DNA? Is there only one? who says that? I have been researching and learning about it more for a while and results are very interesting: Q is not Turkic, it is Mongol while R1 and N1 are so but J1 is also proto-Turkic as it descends from Sarmatians who ruled the area for a long time. Genealogy experts I am currently in touch with say this is how it must have happened according to the historical movements and the area J1 occupies today. There is R1 in Dagestan too, low % ofc but most probably Avar elites who stayed there mixed with Sarmatian origin people and even from the ones from south in time. This is my idea and I keep on researching

    2. Apparently they the only tribes that you know of Turkics but you confuse the time and series of them. We descend from Avars and Avars were from Hun stock, before them were the Ting-ling and Kangli. The others you mentioned are younger tribes. Menandros and Simokattes say Avars ara also related to Ogurs

    3.resemble Turkics? Are you serious? There are so many Turanid looking people in my village, but genuine Avars are not only Turanid looking but mostly north Pontid, CM and even have got some nordic traits to some extent. Mtebid belongs to Dargins and other lowland peoples mostly

    4.ok, language: Both Avarian and Turkish are agglutinative languages although there is insignificant gender in Avarian possibly passed from trying to write and speak the langauge like arabs after turning Islam in 12.century. In the highlands languages changes easily, however, he main verbs like ‘behol’ = bol = ol (to be) and ‘balakh’=bak (look) are the same in Avar and Turkish languages, and even these two are enough to prove the common origin, but there are many unloanable common words like Juy=Şey (thing), tsak=ok (many) and some colours like kah(ila)=kk(sl) (blue) and ara=kara (black) along with numbers

    I am not self-hating but self-aware while you are a subconscious self-hater who claim to come from some Iranics or Arabs, lol, these are your words so, its not me but you who disgrace his ancestors. Thank god I have got other Avar friends from Dagestan who love Turkish people and listen to me with repsect when I give lectures them about 'real' history, but of course they are not 'in charge' like you, they are genuine



    No, first of all replace your senseless sentence above with ‘saying Avars today are not related to Avar Kghanate is same as saying Bulgars today are not related to Bulgar Kghanate’. You have no idea about your ancestors, their migration routes and origin. Why do you think that there exist red hair and light eyes among some northern Indians along with R1a and R1b? It comes from Huns settled in northern India and western Turkstan region, they carried them to Caucasus and Europe and mixed with the locals there, scientific fact, you just need to read some articles. If you dont want, its your problem

    Avars are not like you, I know how they behave and sound (for I have many of them as family and friends from both Turkey and Russia), especially when it comes to Turkey and Turks. If you really an Avar, show it, instead of fighting with me respect me with your manners and learn about your origins well
    Your ignorance about your ancestors is so blatant
    1. Yuruks of Turkey, Qajars of Azerbaijan and Tatars with Nogays have nothing common to us. If you descended from Nadir-shah (pure Turk from Afshar tribe) then you isn't Avar.
    2.Pannonian Avars were Mongoloid Chuvash-speakers. Avars of Daghestan speak Caucasian language and Caucasoid.
    3.Avars north Pontid? Do you seen any Avar in your life? Even lighter Avars doesn't resemble Kazan Tatars or Russians. Our people often mocked by Kumyks as having big noses. And Darghins are mountain people, lowland is always occupied by Kumyks.
    4.black - ch'e'er (not cara), blue - qahab (not kah), many - 'emer (not ts'aq which means better), behul - could be (not to be), balah (not balakh) - look. You prove your manqurtness.
    If light hair and blue eyes came with Turkics why Azerbaijanis are swarthier than Akhwakh Avars and Laks (both people are majority J1 y-dna haplogroup and were isolated from plains).
    I'm aboriginal inhabitant of Eastern Caucasus speak language of my ancestors and profess religion for which Imam Shamil fought. I like Turks but I don't like manqurts, Nordicists and Pan-Turkists like you. You should replace jihadist Imam Shamil with Nadir-shah, who massacred many Daghestanis but was a Turkmen.

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