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Thread: Classify/passify Savonian Finnish girl

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    Default Classify/passify Savonian Finnish girl

    I don't know how much of her ancestry is from Savo, but she lives in Savo, she speaks in the Savo dialect, and her surname is common in Savo.

    Savonians are considered "Eastern Finns proper", so Bertil Lundman also named his Eastern Finnish type (Savolaxid) after the Swedish name for Savo (Savolax). Savonians are genetically a mix between Karelians and Tavastians.

    Does she pass as Khanty?


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    I imagine proto-Magyars looked just like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feiichy View Post
    I imagine proto-Magyars looked just like that.
    As far as I know proto-Magyars were not white people. Were they not related to the Turks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laag View Post
    As far as I know proto-Magyars were not white people. Were they not related to the Turks?
    Hungarian language is Ugric, so make your conclusions.

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    I associate proto-Magyars with Turanids not with Savolaxid or other NE Euro phenotypes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ymyyakhtakh View Post
    Does she pass as Khanty?
    I think she pass much better as Khnaty than as proto-Magyars.
    How common Turanid among Khanty people?

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    Textbook East Baltid imo. Pass as Komi

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    Neparáczki et al. 2019 (Y-chromosome haplogroups from Hun, Avar and conquering Hungarian period nomadic people of the Carpathian Basin) did say that the Hungarian conquerors had similar paternal lineages as Bashkirs and Volga Tatars:

    The origin and composition of the Conqueror paternal lineages fairly mirrors that of their maternal ones[10]; 20,7% of the Y-Hg-s originated from East Eurasia, this value is 30,4% for mtDNA; proportion of west Eurasian paternal lineages is 69% compared to 58,8% for mtDNA; while proportion of lineages with north-western European and Caucasus-Middle East origin are nearly the same affirming that both males and females of similar origin migrated together. Both MDS analysis of the entire Conqueror Y chromosome pool and PCA of their N1a lineages indicates that their admixture sources are found among Central Asians and eastern European Pontic Steppe groups, a finding comparable to what had been described for maternal lineages[10]. Composition of the Conqueror paternal lineages is very similar to that of Baskhirs, while their maternal composition was found most similar to Volga Tatars[10]. These modern populations are located next to each other, have similar prehistory[32] and genetic structure derived from the same admixture sources detected in the Conquerors. Moreover it must be noted that Bashkirs were not represented in the mitogenome database while Volga Tatars are missing from our Y-chromosome database due to lack of data, but their N1a distribution is quite similar (Fig. 7), thus mtDNA results are in accord with Y-chromosomal ones.

    The Conqueror-Bashkir relations are also supported by historical sources, as early Hungarians of the Carpathian Basin were reported to be identical to Baskhirs by Arabic historians like al-Masudi, al-Qazwini, al-Balhi, al-Istahri and Abu Hamid al-Garnati[33], latter visited both groups at the same time around 1150 AD and used the term Bashgird to refer to the Hungarians in the Carpathian Basin. In addition parallels were found between several Conqueror and Bashkir tribe names and Bashkiria has been identified with Magna Hungaria, the motherland of Conquerors[34].

    Triska et al. 2017 (Between Lake Baikal and the Baltic Sea: genomic history of the gateway to Europe) found that Bashkirs shared higher ancient IBD with Khanty than with Volga Tatars, and they suspected that the ancestors of Bashkirs shifted their language during the Turkic expansion:

    Tatar share moderate amount of IBD (3.55–7.35 cM per pair) with all neighbouring populations, while Bashkir share most of their ancient blocks (on average 8.62 cM per pair) with Khanty, a group of Uralic speakers from Western Siberia. We speculate that this disparity between cultural and genetic affinities of Tatar and Bashkir can be attributed to a phenomenon of cultural dominance: the population ancestral to Bashkir adopted the Turkic language during Turkic expansion from the east (language replacement event).



    According to Post et al. 2019 (Y-chromosomal connection between Hungarians and geographically distant populations of the Ural Mountain region and West Siberia), Bashkirs share N3a4-B539 with Khanty and Mansi:

    Hg N3a4-B535 (Fig. 3b) is common mostly among Finnic (Finns, Karelians, Vepsas, Estonians) and Saami speaking populations in North eastern Europe (Supplementary Table S3). The highest frequency is detected in Finns (~44%) but it also reaches up to 32% in Vepsas and around 20% in Karelians, Saamis and North Russians. The latter are known to have changed their language or to be an admixed population with reported similar genetic composition to their Finnic speaking neighbors[36]. The frequency of N3a4-B535 rapidly decreases towards south to around 5% in Estonians, being almost absent in Latvians (1%) and not found among Lithuanians. Towards east its frequency is from 1–9% among Eastern European Russians and populations of the Volga-Ural region such as Komis, Mordvins and Chuvashes, but it is absent among Tatars and Bashkirs with an exception of Burzyansky District Bashkirs where the frequency is up to 5% (Supplementary Table S3).

    [...]

    Hg N3a4-B539 (Fig. 3c), on the other hand, is prevalent among Turkic speaking Bashkirs and also found in Tatars but is entirely missing from other populations of the Volga-Ural region such as Uralic speaking Udmurts, Maris, Komis and Mordvins, and in Northeast Europe, where instead N3a4-B535 lineages are frequent. Besides Bashkirs and Tatars in Volga-Ural region, N3a4-B539 is substantially represented in West Siberia among Ugric speaking Mansis and Khantys. Among Hungarians, however, N3a4-B539 has a subtle frequency of 1–4% (Fig. 3d), which is surprising considering their distant location from the core area of N3a4-B539. The sub-clades of N3a4-B539 (B540 and B545) (Fig. 2) have partly overlapping distribution areas with highest frequency peaks of hg N3a4-B540/L1034 (Fig. 3e) in the Ural Mountain region. B540 is more widespread and the most frequent among different sub-populations of Bashkirs in Southern Urals (up to 60%) and in West Siberia among Ugric speaking Mansis and Khantys (up to 27%). It is also present in Uralic speaking Nenets (7%) and Turkic speaking Dolgans (5%) but missing from Uralic speaking Nganasans and Selkups. Although N3a4-B540 is prevalent in Bashkirs it has a considerably lower frequency among neighbouring Tatars (3–5%).

    So it could be more that Bashkirs are Ugric rather than that Hungarians are Turkic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laag View Post
    I think she pass much better as Khnaty than as proto-Magyars.
    How common Turanid among Khanty people?
    I tried doing morphs of approximately 15-45-year-old females in old photos of Khanty, Kazakhs, and Uzbeks, and they did end up looking completely different. The Khanty morph has the least sad-looking eyes, because it has the least prominent eyelids and the highest canthal tilt. It also has a more round face and a lower bridge of the nose.



    But yeah, the girl in this thread has the same kind of extreme freakish face as the Khanty morph. Actually that's the most kawaii type.

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    East Baltid. Strange phenotype.

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