Orthodox vs. West: why Moslems so anti-Orthodox?

[Rumata]

- Russians took Kazan in 1552, they reduced Moslem Tatars into second class citizen status yet they still allowed them to exist.

Seconde class? Search the word "Tatar" in this page:
List of Russian princely families

And Tatars (a Mongolian people speaking a Turkic language) still exist in Kazan region.

Afaik, those Tatars who were a Mongolian people were genocided by Genghis Khan and the name of their tribe was given to other peoples according to the Mongol custom. Volga Tatars claim Volga Bulgarian heritage.

[Turxanthus]

Seconde class? Search the word "Tatar" in this page:
List of Russian princely families

Those were probably ones who, for the sake of jumping a social class, changed their faith. There are plenty of Christian Tatars.
We talk about Moslem ones. They were second class people. Yet Russians still allowed them to exist.

Afaik, those Tatars who were a Mongolian people were genocided by Genghis Khan and the name of their tribe was given to other peoples according to the Mongol custom. Volga Tatars claim Volga Bulgarian heritage.

Tatars were given to Batu and Berke and were the Mongol elite who created the Golden Horde. Modern Kazan people claim Bulgar heritage because anything related to Mongols has a bad reputation, the word ''Mongol'' itself is considered to be an insult especially in the West, with bad connotation for the commoners (Down Syndrome etc). Hopefully that has been changing for a few decades now.

[Hajimurad]

Those were probably ones who, for the sake of jumping a social class, changed their faith. There are plenty of Christian Tatars.
We talk about Moslem ones. They were second class people. Yet Russians still allowed them to exist.


Tatars were given to Batu and Berke and were the Mongol elite who created the Golden Horde. Modern Kazan people claim Bulgar heritage because anything related to Mongols has a bad reputation, the word ''Mongol'' is considered to be an insult especially in the West. Hopefully that has been changing for a few decades now.

Modern Tatars of Russia has little relation to Mongols of Chingizhan (except nobility). They are mainly descendants of Bulgars (Kazan Tatars) and Burtas (Mishar Tatars) tribes.

[unseen]

this is another reason why I converted to Islam. Hate russian vodka,bears and all russian culture

How can Islam save you from bears?

Is there a secret anti-bear prayer in Islam?

[Oghuz]

They do talk and care about sects among the Moslems. Russians are fan of Syrian Alawites for example, Brits control Wahabbis etc. They do talk a lot about it, it is you who seems to be disconnected.

You seem to be very disconnected yourself. There is no continual alliance between Islamic and western countries. Things change with time depending upon economic interests and politics. Here are examples of changing alliances in this century between Islamic countries and Superpowers.

US - Iran pre revolution (till 1970s)
Russia - Iran post (post 2010s)
Russia - Baathist Arabs (till 2000s)
US- Persian Gulf Arab Kingdoms (strong for decades but weakening now)
US - Turkey (till 2010s)
Russia - Turkey (in future)
Russia - Egypt (till Nasser Era)
US- Egypt (post Camp David)
Russia - Sisi Egypt
China - Pakistan (always)
China - Iran (2010s)
China - KSA (in future)

Nothing is permanent. No one cares about beliefs.

[Rumata]

Those were probably ones who, for the sake of jumping a social class, changed their faith. There are plenty of Christian Tatars.
We talk about Moslem ones. They were second class people. Yet Russians still allowed them to exist.

Well, religions were crucial for states back then.

Tatars were given to Batu and Berke and were the Mongol elite who created the Golden Horde. Modern Kazan people claim Bulgar heritage because anything related to Mongols has a bad reputation, the word ''Mongol'' itself is considered to be an insult especially in the West, with bad connotation for the commoners (Down Syndrome etc). Hopefully that has been changing for a few decades now.

I'll have to recheck my info. But you have to agree that modern Volga Tatars pass in Mongolia very badly.

[unseen]

The rivalry between Moslems and Orthodoxes might result from the fact that they share common borders.
That can be an argument. Since sharing common borders generate more problems than not having any shared borders.

Okay.

Were Tatars second class citizens? Yes.

No.

I will agree with you only if you show me some Russian state documents that say that Tatars should be considered second-class citizens in Russia.

[Turxanthus]

You seem to be very disconnected yourself. There is no continual alliance between Islamic and western countries. Things change with time depending upon economic interests and politics. Here are examples of changing alliances in this century between Islamic countries and Superpowers.

US - Iran pre revolution (till 1970s)
Russia - Iran post (post 2010s)
Russia - Baathist Arabs (till 2000s)
US- Persian Gulf Arab Kingdoms (strong for decades but weakening now)
US - Turkey (till 2010s)
Russia - Turkey (in future)
Russia - Egypt (till Nasser Era)
US- Egypt (post Camp David)
Russia - Sisi Egypt
China - Pakistan (always)
China - Iran (2010s)
China - KSA (in future)

Nothing is permanent. No one cares about beliefs.

Sure. Even Moslems from same religion are at each other's throat, or like how Westerners wiped out Germany of the same faith as them.
That is political reality. However, the thread was aiming at analyzing the civilization context and fabric.

Orthodox Russians crushed Moslems (Ottomans, Crimeans, Circassians etc) on several occasions as a matter of fact, but it is another story.

Thus, it still seems that you did not understand what the thread is about.

[contributor]

idk man, to me it seems the opposite going by your arguements alone...

[Turxanthus]

idk man, to me it seems the opposite going by your arguements alone...

Until 1204, the Greks allowed Moslems (Arabs) to have their small mosque in downtown Constantinople. Latins removed it after 1204, while removing Orthodoxes as well.
Yet Turks and Greeks having problems nowadays (and Greece supporting terrorist groups) is a geopolitical reality and Tengri knows how that gonna end!