How the Balkans went from Sardinian-like to West-Asian like?

[Jana]

In my eyes Italian and Iberian are still "Sardinian-like". Genetic pull towards South-West Europe.

They are not, North Italians and Iberians score significant steppe admixture.

[Kaspias]

You don't understand that the people who identified as Thracian of course were not 100% Yamnaya-like genetically. All Balkan "Indo-Europeans" were indo-europeanized linguistically and not too muc genetically. It's only Corded-Ware culture who got near-complete replaced by Yamnya, not the Balkans. The Balkans was too densely populated with Starcevo, Vinca and Cucuteni people who had a food surplus from farming.

No, of course i understand. The problem is these samples are like 90% EEF while they should be around half or less.

Scythian_Moldova seems appropriate, though.

[War Chef]

How can those supposed Dacian samples be explained then? Because their results are like they came straight from the cucuteni Tryppilian culture with no indo european admixture.


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You can ignore them two, they don't understand the population demographics and archaeogenetics of the Balkans as well as I do.

[Jana]

They may live under Thracians but this doesn't necessarily mean that they are ethnic Thracian, their results are in the same parallel with N Farmers, so where is the Thracian effect?

Farmer remnants.

Isolated neolithic farmers in Iron Age? Unlikely. And this sample did not cluster with Sardinians.

Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

1 West_Med 28.65
2 East_Med 26.64
3 North_Sea 15.14
4 Atlantic 12.54
5 West_Asian 9.66
6 Red_Sea 3.72
7 Baltic 3.65

Single Population Sharing:

1 Tuscan 11.98
2 South_Italian 12.54
3 West_Sicilian 12.55
4 East_Sicilian 12.78
5 Central_Greek 13.11
6 Italian_Abruzzo 13.68
7 Greek_Thessaly 13.77
8 Italian_Jewish 14.15
9 Algerian_Jewish 15.17
10 Ashkenazi 15.36
11 North_Italian 15.49
12 Greek 15.57
13 Sephardic_Jewish 16.87
14 Libyan_Jewish 19.2
15 Tunisian_Jewish 20.2
16 Portuguese 21.5
17 Bulgarian 21.51
18 Spanish_Extremadura 21.65
19 Spanish_Galicia 21.91
20 Spanish_Andalucia 22.12

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 67.3% Central_Greek + 32.7% Sardinian @ 7.43
2 68.2% East_Sicilian + 31.8% Sardinian @ 7.5
3 68.9% South_Italian + 31.1% Sardinian @ 7.51
4 62.8% Ashkenazi + 37.2% Sardinian @ 8.1
5 65.5% Italian_Jewish + 34.5% Sardinian @ 8.13
6 66.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 33.2% Sardinian @ 8.24
7 66.8% Greek_Thessaly + 33.2% Sardinian @ 8.48
8 71.3% West_Sicilian + 28.7% Sardinian @ 9.01
9 56.2% Libyan_Jewish + 43.8% Sardinian @ 9.47
10 75.4% Tuscan + 24.6% Sardinian @ 9.75
11 60.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 39.2% Sardinian @ 9.78
12 64.8% Algerian_Jewish + 35.2% Sardinian @ 9.79
13 58.2% North_Italian + 41.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 10.12
14 54.3% Italian_Jewish + 45.7% North_Italian @ 10.2
15 54.4% Sardinian + 45.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 10.22
16 59.2% Sardinian + 40.8% Assyrian @ 10.29
17 51% Algerian_Jewish + 49% North_Italian @ 10.32
18 58.6% Sardinian + 41.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 10.32
19 73.2% South_Italian + 26.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 10.35
20 66.8% Italian_Jewish + 33.2% Spanish_Galicia @ 10.41

Bulgarians are mixed with something very southern, and that must be Thracians who were mostly pre-IE genetically already in Iron Age.
Bronze Age Bulgarian sample could have been proto-Thracian elite.

[Kaspias]

Isolated neolithic farmers in Iron Age? Unlikely. And this sample did not cluster with Sardinians.

Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

1 West_Med 28.65
2 East_Med 26.64
3 North_Sea 15.14
4 Atlantic 12.54
5 West_Asian 9.66
6 Red_Sea 3.72
7 Baltic 3.65

Single Population Sharing:

1 Tuscan 11.98
2 South_Italian 12.54
3 West_Sicilian 12.55
4 East_Sicilian 12.78
5 Central_Greek 13.11
6 Italian_Abruzzo 13.68
7 Greek_Thessaly 13.77
8 Italian_Jewish 14.15
9 Algerian_Jewish 15.17
10 Ashkenazi 15.36
11 North_Italian 15.49
12 Greek 15.57
13 Sephardic_Jewish 16.87
14 Libyan_Jewish 19.2
15 Tunisian_Jewish 20.2
16 Portuguese 21.5
17 Bulgarian 21.51
18 Spanish_Extremadura 21.65
19 Spanish_Galicia 21.91
20 Spanish_Andalucia 22.12

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 67.3% Central_Greek + 32.7% Sardinian @ 7.43
2 68.2% East_Sicilian + 31.8% Sardinian @ 7.5
3 68.9% South_Italian + 31.1% Sardinian @ 7.51
4 62.8% Ashkenazi + 37.2% Sardinian @ 8.1
5 65.5% Italian_Jewish + 34.5% Sardinian @ 8.13
6 66.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 33.2% Sardinian @ 8.24
7 66.8% Greek_Thessaly + 33.2% Sardinian @ 8.48
8 71.3% West_Sicilian + 28.7% Sardinian @ 9.01
9 56.2% Libyan_Jewish + 43.8% Sardinian @ 9.47
10 75.4% Tuscan + 24.6% Sardinian @ 9.75
11 60.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 39.2% Sardinian @ 9.78
12 64.8% Algerian_Jewish + 35.2% Sardinian @ 9.79
13 58.2% North_Italian + 41.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 10.12
14 54.3% Italian_Jewish + 45.7% North_Italian @ 10.2
15 54.4% Sardinian + 45.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 10.22
16 59.2% Sardinian + 40.8% Assyrian @ 10.29
17 51% Algerian_Jewish + 49% North_Italian @ 10.32
18 58.6% Sardinian + 41.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 10.32
19 73.2% South_Italian + 26.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 10.35
20 66.8% Italian_Jewish + 33.2% Spanish_Galicia @ 10.41

Bulgarians are mixed with something very southern, and that must be Thracians who were mostly pre-IE genetically already in Iron Age.
Bronze Age Bulgarian sample could have been proto-Thracians elite.

Can you also post Eurogenes K13, MDLP K23b and Eurogenes K36 if you have kit number?

[War Chef]

They are not, North Italians and Iberians score significant steppe admixture.

lol?

[Jana]

How can those supposed Dacian samples be explained then? Because their results are like they came straight from the cucuteni Tryppilian culture with no indo european admixture.

Which Dacian samples? We have no Dacian samples, unless those Scythians from Moldova were Dacians and they don't have neolithic genetic profile.

[PAGANE]

West Asian by Bulgarians and Cumans and this is normal given the location of emergence and subsequent displacement to the Balkans mainly from the northeast. There are also early Bulgarian displacements in Asia Minor through the South Caucasus. Avars and Pechenegs would leave more Central Asian.

[Daos777]

Which Dacian samples? We have no Dacian samples, unless those Scythians from Moldova were Dacians and they don't have neolithic genetic profile.

How do they not when they have the same admixtures as Sardinians and they were found all the way in Moldova? That’s high Neolithic genetics. Those aren’t scythians. All the other scythians I’ve seen get Ruski, Ukraine, Poland, Moldova for modern similarity. I should know because my closest ancient match is Scythian Ukraine.

[Jana]

You can ignore them two, they don't understand the population demographics and archaeogenetics of the Balkans as well as I do.

You are obviously completely clueless when you claim bronze age Croatians were close to Sardianians. Not at all. They were closer to Germans and Dutch than to Sardinians.

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 6.07
2 Portuguese 6.25
3 Spanish_Extremadura 6.73
4 Spanish_Cataluna 6.9
5 Spanish_Galicia 7.37
6 Spanish_Murcia 7.51
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.79
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.9
9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.18
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.76
11 French 9.14
12 Spanish_Cantabria 10.07
13 Spanish_Aragon 11.5
14 Southwest_French 11.53
15 Tuscan 11.71
16 West_German 14.36
17 South_Dutch 14.77
18 Romanian 16.27
19 Serbian 16.71
20 Bulgarian 17.78