Page 3 of 26 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 259

Thread: White Serb/Sorb gedmatch result!

  1. #21
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:36 AM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,923
    Given: 18,997

    3 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Voight View Post
    If Sorbs were ancestors of Serbs, then wouldn't this dude cluster closer to Serbs
    Nope, because White Serbs mixed with local Paleo-Balkan peoples when they moved to Serbia.

    This model based on G25 shows that it is possible to model Serbs as Sorb + native Balkan mix:



    BGR_IA = Iron Age Bulgaria
    HRV_IA = Iron Age Dalmatia
    MDA = Moldova Cimmerians

    No more than half of Serbian ancestry comes from a Sorb-like source. The rest is native Balkan.

  2. #22
    King of Swords Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Dick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Last Online
    Today @ 04:49 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    my own tribe
    Ethnicity
    entheos
    Country
    Serbia
    Y-DNA
    I1
    mtDNA
    H11a1a
    Politics
    NWO Masonic Luciferianism
    Religion
    69
    Gender
    Posts
    27,766
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 44,378
    Given: 31,164

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Nope, because White Serbs mixed with local Paleo-Balkan peoples when they moved to Serbia.

    This model based on G25 shows that it is possible to model Serbs as Sorb + native Balkan mix:



    BGR_IA = Iron Age Bulgaria
    HRV_IA = Iron Age Dalmatia
    MDA = Moldova Cimmerians

    No more than half of Serbian ancestry comes from a Sorb-like source. The rest is native Balkan.
    Try without Hrv IA, it's not really "Balkanic"(more like North Italian)even though it was found in the Balkans

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Last Online
    03-01-2021 @ 08:40 PM
    Ethnicity
    Heathen
    Ancestry
    Pannonia-Slav
    Country
    United States
    Taxonomy
    Alpinid-Dinarid
    Politics
    Techno-Primitivist
    Hero
    Louis & Marie Cachet, Stefan Cvetković (@ardagast_svarozic), Slavoj Žižek
    Religion
    Pagan
    Gender
    Posts
    1,096
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 381
    Given: 655

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Nope, because White Serbs mixed with local Paleo-Balkan peoples when they moved to Serbia.

    This model based on G25 shows that it is possible to model Serbs as Sorb + native Balkan mix:



    BGR_IA = Iron Age Bulgaria
    HRV_IA = Iron Age Dalmatia
    MDA = Moldova Cimmerians

    No more than half of Serbian ancestry comes from a Sorb-like source. The rest is native Balkan.
    Is there a similar chart for Croatians, Slovenians, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Hungarians?


    Interesting, although it's kinda hard to grasp the idea that hundreds of thousands of Sorbs moved to Bosnia/Serbia and intermixed with the Illyrians there to a 50/50 extent.

    There were 100,000 Sorbs in Lusatia in 1900, and there are less than 100,000 today. Even assuming that Sorbs were much more prevalent back then, it just doesn't seem possible that they were so extensive to be able to send that many people to the Balkans and intermix with them to such an extent.

    Is it possible to make a different model such that Sorbs are the ones that have 50% Serb admixture, along with some Germanic component? That would be much more fitting with their population sizes.
    Last edited by Voyt; 11-28-2019 at 03:16 AM.

  4. #24
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:36 AM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,923
    Given: 18,997

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Voight View Post
    Interesting, although it's kinda hard to grasp the idea that hundreds of thousands of Sorbs moved Bosnia/Serbia and intermixed with the Illyrians there to a 50/50 extent.
    Well, I suppose that in reality only some of "Northern Slavic" DNA in Serbia is from Sorbs.

    The rest is from Slavs who crossed the Danube near the Black Sea a few centuries prior:

    Menander Protector, fragments 47 and 48:

    "About the fourth year of the reign of Caesar Tiberius Constantine, some hundred thousand Slavs broke into Thrace, and pillaged that and many other regions. As Greece was being laid waste by the Slavs, with trouble liable to flare up anywhere, and as Tiberius had at his disposal by no means sufficient forces to contain them, he sent a delegation to the Khagan of the Avars. (...)"

    Procopius of Caesarea, "Historia Arcana", 18, 20-21:

    "Illyria and all of Thrace, that is, from the Ionian Gulf to the suburbs of Constantinople, including Greece and the Chersonese, were overran by the Slavs, almost every year, from the time when Justinian took over the Roman Empire; and intolerable things they did to the inhabitants. For in each of these invasions, I estimate, more than two hundred thousand Romans were slain or enslaved, so that all this country became a desert like that of Scythia."

    John of Ephesus "Historia Ecclesiastica", 6, 25:

    "That same year, being the third after the death of emperor Justin, was famous also for the invasion of an accursed people, called Slavs, who overran the whole of Greece, and the lands of Thessaly, and all Thrace, and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their own without fear. And four years have now elapsed, and still, because the king is engaged in the war with the Persians, and has sent all his forces to the East, they live at their ease in the land, and dwell in it, and spread themselves far and wide as far as God permits them, and ravage and burn and take captive. And to such an extent do they carry their ravages, that they've even ridden up to the outer wall of the city [Constantinople], and driven away all the king's herds of horses, many thousands in number, and whatever else they could find. And even to this day, being the year 584 AD, they still encamp and dwell there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn: and they have grown rich in gold and silver, and herds of horses, and arms, and have learnt to fight better than the Romans, though at first they were but rude savages, who did not venture to shew themselves outside the woods and the coverts of the trees; and as for arms, they did not even know what they were, with the exception of two or three javelins or darts."

    ^^^
    All of those events were taking place long BEFORE the migration of White Serbs to Serbia.

    Obviously those Slavs who broke into Thrace were ancestors of Bulgarians and Macedonians.

    And partially they were ancestors of Serbs. White Serbs being the other part who came later.

  5. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Last Online
    07-11-2020 @ 03:40 AM
    Ethnicity
    Basarab Laiota
    Country
    Moldova
    Y-DNA
    I2 (Carpathian)
    Gender
    Posts
    7,568
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,208
    Given: 1,745

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Serbs came from India and North Caucasus according to Kosovo Report Serbs on Youtube did you watch?

  6. #26
    King of Swords Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Dick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Last Online
    Today @ 04:49 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    my own tribe
    Ethnicity
    entheos
    Country
    Serbia
    Y-DNA
    I1
    mtDNA
    H11a1a
    Politics
    NWO Masonic Luciferianism
    Religion
    69
    Gender
    Posts
    27,766
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 44,378
    Given: 31,164

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Well, I suppose that in reality only some of "Northern Slavic" DNA in Serbia is from Sorbs.

    The rest is from Slavs who crossed the Danube near the Black Sea a few centuries prior:

    Menander Protector, fragments 47 and 48:

    "About the fourth year of the reign of Caesar Tiberius Constantine, some hundred thousand Slavs broke into Thrace, and pillaged that and many other regions. As Greece was being laid waste by the Slavs, with trouble liable to flare up anywhere, and as Tiberius had at his disposal by no means sufficient forces to contain them, he sent a delegation to the Khagan of the Avars. (...)"

    Procopius of Caesarea, "Historia Arcana", 18, 20-21:

    "Illyria and all of Thrace, that is, from the Ionian Gulf to the suburbs of Constantinople, including Greece and the Chersonese, were overran by the Slavs, almost every year, from the time when Justinian took over the Roman Empire; and intolerable things they did to the inhabitants. For in each of these invasions, I estimate, more than two hundred thousand Romans were slain or enslaved, so that all this country became a desert like that of Scythia."

    John of Ephesus "Historia Ecclesiastica", 6, 25:

    "That same year, being the third after the death of emperor Justin, was famous also for the invasion of an accursed people, called Slavs, who overran the whole of Greece, and the lands of Thessaly, and all Thrace, and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their own without fear. And four years have now elapsed, and still, because the king is engaged in the war with the Persians, and has sent all his forces to the East, they live at their ease in the land, and dwell in it, and spread themselves far and wide as far as God permits them, and ravage and burn and take captive. And to such an extent do they carry their ravages, that they have even ridden up to the outer wall of the city, and driven away all the king's herds of horses, many thousands in number, and whatever else they could find. And even to this day, being the year 584 AD, they still encamp and dwell there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn: and they have grown rich in gold and silver, and herds of horses, and arms, and have learnt to fight better than the Romans, though at first they were but rude savages, who did not venture to shew themselves outside the woods and the coverts of the trees; and as for arms, they did not even know what they were, with the exception of two or three javelins or darts."

    ^^^
    All of those events were taking place long BEFORE the migration of White Serbs to Serbia.

    Obviously those Slavs who broke into Thrace were ancestors of Bulgarians and Macedonians.

    And partially they were ancestors of Serbs. White Serbs being the other part who came later.
    Well, there were already Slavs in the Balkans since the Dark Ages(example the Vayunites tribe among others) but the only explanations for both tribes to share the same name is either the Sorbs/Serby imposed their name on the other Slavs when they migrated to the Balkans(the unknown archon was either Dervan's son or brother so they say, something to that effect I can't be bothered to look it up right now) like the Bulgarians did or the theory that all Slavs were called Serbs according to Jordanes. Which theory sounds more plausible to you?

  7. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Last Online
    03-01-2021 @ 08:40 PM
    Ethnicity
    Heathen
    Ancestry
    Pannonia-Slav
    Country
    United States
    Taxonomy
    Alpinid-Dinarid
    Politics
    Techno-Primitivist
    Hero
    Louis & Marie Cachet, Stefan Cvetković (@ardagast_svarozic), Slavoj Žižek
    Religion
    Pagan
    Gender
    Posts
    1,096
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 381
    Given: 655

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Well, I suppose that in reality only some of "Northern Slavic" DNA in Serbia is from Sorbs.

    The rest is from Slavs who crossed the Danube near the Black Sea a few centuries prior:



    ^^^
    All of those events were taking place long BEFORE the migration of White Serbs to Serbia.

    Obviously those Slavs who broke into Thrace were ancestors of Bulgarians and Macedonians.

    And partially they were ancestors of Serbs. White Serbs being the other part who came later.

    But those slavs are obviously different genetically from Sorbs, so it doesn't make sense to equate them. The 50% from your chart is from Lower Lusatia, so why would they share near exact genes with the Sclaveni who came in from the Bulgarian route

    idk, if you ask me, the reason Sorbs cluster closer to Croats makes most sense if either

    1. they split off from each other from a source population in northern Carpathia/west Ukraine

    OR

    2. the Sorbs are in actuality a result of "Croats" (who were a tribe of Serbs) moving north and forming their own coalition against the Franks

    it would explain why you can find these types in Sorbian crowds frequently:

    who look like they could pass as natives in Croatia

  8. #28
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:36 AM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,923
    Given: 18,997

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Voight View Post
    But those slavs are obviously different genetically from Sorbs, so it doesn't make sense to equate them.
    They aren't that different from each other:









    =====

    For comparison distances of Macedonians:


  9. #29
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Last Online
    03-01-2021 @ 08:40 PM
    Ethnicity
    Heathen
    Ancestry
    Pannonia-Slav
    Country
    United States
    Taxonomy
    Alpinid-Dinarid
    Politics
    Techno-Primitivist
    Hero
    Louis & Marie Cachet, Stefan Cvetković (@ardagast_svarozic), Slavoj Žižek
    Religion
    Pagan
    Gender
    Posts
    1,096
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 381
    Given: 655

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    They aren't that different from each other:
    So what happens if you replace the "Lower-Lusatian" sample in that chart with some other west-Slav or east-Slav population?

    Is it around 40-50% as well?

  10. #30
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:36 AM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,923
    Given: 18,997

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Voight View Post
    Is it around 40-50% as well?
    With Czechs it even increases to 60%. With Ukrainians it also increases. Haven't tried Slovaks yet and Poles yet.

Page 3 of 26 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. A Syriac Gedmatch result!
    By Haider in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-19-2021, 11:41 PM
  2. Tianyuan man GEDmatch result
    By Ajeje Brazorf in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-20-2021, 01:13 PM
  3. Bulgarian Gedmatch result
    By Kaspias in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 03-01-2019, 09:57 PM
  4. Pomak Gedmatch result - 3
    By Kaspias in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-24-2019, 03:53 PM
  5. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-18-2019, 10:11 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •