Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Regions of Pomerania & Prussia according to German 1858 book

  1. #1
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 07:14 PM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,924
    Given: 18,997

    4 Not allowed!

    Default Regions of Pomerania & Prussia according to German 1858 book

    I made this map based on the table below (from an 1858 book) with some modifications based on other sources:

    Book (source of the table posted below):



    Names in brackets are either alternative names for the same region, or smaller sub-regions within larger regions:



    ^^^
    Blue line in the map indicates Inter-War border of Poland, while pre-1772 Poland included more of these areas:





    =====

    Table which groups counties into regions:

    Last edited by Peterski; 12-02-2019 at 11:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 07:14 PM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,924
    Given: 18,997

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Herzogtum Slawien (Slavinia) was located to the west of Herzogtum Kassuben:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavinia

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slawien


  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Last Online
    06-23-2021 @ 06:41 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    EM78GREENSAVANNAH's best friend
    Ethnicity
    Bessarabian Jew
    Country
    Israel
    Region
    Aboriginal
    Y-DNA
    g2a1
    mtDNA
    h1
    Gender
    Posts
    6,561
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 8,158
    Given: 4,510

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    It's kind of crazy how Poles let the Germans cuck their best (beach/coastline) land.
    History is amazing.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 07:14 PM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,924
    Given: 18,997

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    In 1854 Landschaftsbezirke were created in areas of historic duchies:

    https://www.heraldik-wiki.de/wiki/Titulatur...n_und_Kaschuben

    "Das Reglement zur Ausführung der Verordnung vom 12. Oktober 1854 regelte das Präsentationsrecht für die preußische Erste Kammer (späteres Herrenhaus). Danach hatten u. a. die Verbände des alten Grundbesitzes ein Präsentationsrecht. Die Wahl der zu präsentierenden Mitglieder sollte in Landschaftsbezirken erfolgen. Für die Provinz Pommern waren 6 Landschaftsbezirke, die zusammen 13 Mitglieder in die Kammer zu entsenden hatten, vorgesehen, darunter das Herzogtum Wenden (Krs. Stolp, Rummelsburg, Schlawe) und das Herzogtum Kassuben (Krs. Köslin / Fürstentum, Neustettin, Belgard). Die neugebildeten Landschaftsbezirke „Kassuben“ und „Wenden“ entsprachen dem Gebiet, das man auf den alten Karten und in den Landesbeschreibungen des vorhergehenden Jahrhunderts gewöhnlich für beide „Herzogtümer“ in Anspruch nahm.

    Insofern gab es auf dem Papier die Herzogtümer der Wenden und der Kaschuben bis 1918."

    ^^^
    I found it also in Polish sources (page 86 or 5/50 of the PDF file):

    http://nandi.pl/files/gryf_bolduan_fragm.pdf

    "The Elector of Brandenburg was using in year 1674 the title 'Dux Cassubiorum et Vandalorum', later Prussian kings were calling themselves 'Herzog der Wenden und Kaschuben.' In 1811 there was a project of creating 'Präsidentur Kassuben' and after 1815 - 'Bezirk Kassuben' with capital city in Kolberg [Kołobrzeg]. In 1854 'Herzogtum Kassuben' was created, comprising counties of Köslin, Neustettin and Belgard. It existed until 1918."

    =====

    Map of Pomerania from 1654 showing the duchies of Wenden and Kassuben:

    https://www.swaen.com/item.php?id=28672

    Zoom: https://www.swaen.com/zoomV5eedownlo...zif_first=true

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Last Online
    01-07-2021 @ 11:31 AM
    Location
    Black Knight satellite
    Ethnicity
    Zeta Reticulan
    Country
    Antarctica
    Politics
    Copernican Principle
    Gender
    Posts
    3,211
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,346
    Given: 1,328

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Were they wannabe Germans or they were actually settled with German(ic) people?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    asuvis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    -
    Meta-Ethnicity
    -
    Ethnicity
    -
    Ancestry
    -
    Country
    Antarctica
    Region
    Russian Turkestan General Governorship
    Y-DNA
    -
    mtDNA
    -
    Taxonomy
    -
    Politics
    -
    Hero
    -
    Gender
    Posts
    868
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 383
    Given: 471

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    I wonder how much Kashubs consider themselves their own ethnic group.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 07:14 PM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,924
    Given: 18,997

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    I'm not sure if there were any Kashub-speakers left in "Herzogtum Kassuben" / "Landschaftsbezirk Kassuben" in 1854:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashub...cal_population

    "Until the end of the 12th century, the vast majority of inhabitants of Pomerania (both Hither, Farther and Eastern) were Slavic-speakers, but the province was quite sparsely populated, with large areas covered by forests and waste lands. During the 13th century, German Ostsiedlung began in this region. Slavic dukes of Pomerania such as Barnim I (1220-1278) - despite calling themselves "dux Slavorum et Cassubie" - contributed a lot to the change of ethnic structure by promoting German immigration and granting land to German nobles, monks and clergy. The Slavic ruling dynasty itself started intermarrying with German princesses and became culturally Germanized over time. Wendish commoners became alienated in their own land, their culture replaced by that of newcomers. All of that led to Germanization of most of Slavic Pomeranians. Slavic language was gradually dying out in the region, the general direction of assimilation and language shift was from west to east.

    Johannes Bugenhagen wrote that at the beginning of the 16th century the German-Slavic language border was near Koszalin. During the 17th century, the border between areas with mostly German-speaking and mostly Slavic-speaking populations ran more or less along the present-day border between West Pomeranian and Pomeranian Voivodeships.

    In year 1612, cartographer Eilhard Lubinus - while working on his map of Pomerania - travelled from the direction of Pollnow towards Treblin on his way to Danzig. While staying in the manor house of Stanislaus Stenzel von Puttkamer in Treblin, he noted in his diary: "we have entered Slavic-inhabited lands, which has surprised us a lot." Later, while returning from Gdańsk to Stettin, Lubinus slept over in Wielka Wieś near Stolp, and noted: "in the whole village, we cannot find even one German-speaker" (which caused communication problems).

    Over a century later, in 1772-1778, the area was visited by Johann Bernoulli. He noted that villages owned by Otto Christoph von Podewils - such as Dochow, Zipkow and Warbelin - were inhabited entirely by Slavic-speakers. He also noted that local priests and nobles were making great efforts to weed out Slavic language and turn their subjects into Germans.[24]

    (...)

    According to Georg Hassel, there were 65,000 Slavic-speakers in the whole Provinz Pommern in 1817-1819. Modern estimates for just eastern parts of Pommern (Western Kashubia) in early 1800s range between 40,000 (Leszek Belzyt) and 25,000 (Jan Mordawski, Zygmunt Szultka). The number declined to between 35,000 and 23,000 (Zygmunt Szultka, Leszek Belzyt) in years 1827-1831. In 1850-1860s there were an estimated 23,000 to 17,000 Slavic-speakers left in Pommern, down to 15,000 in 1892 according to Stefan Ramułt. The number was declining due to Germanisation. The bulk of Slavic population in 19th century Pommern was concentrated in its easternmost counties: especially Bytów (Bütow), Lębork (Lauenburg) and Słupsk (Stolp)."
    Last edited by Peterski; 12-03-2019 at 07:46 AM.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 07:14 PM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,924
    Given: 18,997

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by asuvis View Post
    I wonder how much Kashubs consider themselves their own ethnic group.
    Catholic Kashubs have considered themselves Poles while Lutheran Kashubs have had a somehow distinct identity, but:

    http://bazhum.muzhp.pl/media//files/...3-t5-s9-20.pdf (page 11 or 4/13 of the PDF)

    "(...) However we know examples from the 1700s when Lutheran Kashubs called themelves 'Polish people' or directly 'Poles' mainly due to linguistic similarities and because [standard] Polish was used as liturgical language, during classes in parish schools, in books that they were reading, and in songs."
    Last edited by Peterski; 12-03-2019 at 08:24 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    asuvis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    -
    Meta-Ethnicity
    -
    Ethnicity
    -
    Ancestry
    -
    Country
    Antarctica
    Region
    Russian Turkestan General Governorship
    Y-DNA
    -
    mtDNA
    -
    Taxonomy
    -
    Politics
    -
    Hero
    -
    Gender
    Posts
    868
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 383
    Given: 471

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Catholic Kashubs have considered themselves Poles while Lutheran Kashubs have had a somehow distinct identity, but:

    http://bazhum.muzhp.pl/media//files/...3-t5-s9-20.pdf (page 11 or 4/13 of the PDF)

    "(...) However we know examples from the 1700s when Lutheran Kashubs called themelves 'Polish people' or directly 'Poles' mainly due to linguistic similarities and because [standard] Polish was used as liturgical language, during classes in parish schools, in books that they were reading, and in songs."
    Thank you very much, interesting stuff. After finding out my grandfather's mother was a Kashub I've been reading about it a lot. Probably read a lot of what you wrote on Wikipedia too!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    asuvis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    -
    Meta-Ethnicity
    -
    Ethnicity
    -
    Ancestry
    -
    Country
    Antarctica
    Region
    Russian Turkestan General Governorship
    Y-DNA
    -
    mtDNA
    -
    Taxonomy
    -
    Politics
    -
    Hero
    -
    Gender
    Posts
    868
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 383
    Given: 471

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Catholic Kashubs have considered themselves Poles while Lutheran Kashubs have had a somehow distinct identity, but:

    http://bazhum.muzhp.pl/media//files/...3-t5-s9-20.pdf (page 11 or 4/13 of the PDF)

    "(...) However we know examples from the 1700s when Lutheran Kashubs called themelves 'Polish people' or directly 'Poles' mainly due to linguistic similarities and because [standard] Polish was used as liturgical language, during classes in parish schools, in books that they were reading, and in songs."
    If you don't mind another question, when looking at this map I assume the Kashubian sub-identity is on the rise?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashub...ationality.png

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 45
    Last Post: 11-03-2019, 01:52 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-10-2018, 07:24 PM
  3. Do different German regions look different?
    By Bobby Martnen in forum Anthropology
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-02-2018, 02:22 PM
  4. Most German regions in Argentina/Chile/Brazil
    By Costas in forum Latin America
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 10-20-2016, 10:45 PM
  5. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-26-2009, 07:26 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •