Were the Byzantines Actually Romans?

[bandeirante]

No.

They were Brazilians.

eastern european haha

[catgeorge]

Italics are like our naughty young brother always fighting with the older brother. Not only fighting but plagiarizing everything the older brother does.

[wvwvw]

They were still more Roman than anyone else, under Roman authority for centuries and embraced culture. Heck, like the guy in first video said part of the Eastern Roman Christians considered themselves Romans until 20th century (some probably even today).

Not quite. They call themselves Romioi, not Romans. There is a difference between Roman and Romios.

Under Roman rule the Greeks were granted the right to preserve their identity (i.e. culturally, racially, ethnically, religiously, linguistically, etc.).

The Greeks took the title Roman and tranmogrified it into "Romios" with the advent of the medieval age in order to preserve their identity and adapt to the changing times. Romios was not a word to connotate all populations. It was a specific title made by a specific people and directed toward a specific people, the Greeks.

The term "Romios" transcended political and economic connotations. In fact, the term referred to a person of Greek ethno/racial descent, Roman citizenship, and a follower of the Greek Orthodox religion.

To be a Romios required such things to be fulfilled. A Romios is simply a "medieval Hellene." Granted the term "Hellene" was not used during the time of the Eastern Roman Empire, the term's ethnic, racial, cultural, religious, and linguistic connotations were transferred into a different name (i.e. Romios). This helped Greeks adapt to the changes in the world as everything went from the ancient to the medieval while at the same time preserving their identity.

Keep in mind that Medieval Greeks didn't only calle themselves Romios. They had other ethnonyms as well, depending on whether they wanted to use it for legal, administrative or other use.

The ethnonym "Hellene" declined after Caracalla granted Roman citizenship to everyone and the increase of Christian population.

"Hellene" came to mean pagan Greek firstly, and during the early Byzantine era, all pagans.

Historians and other authors use the terms Romhellenes and Graecoromans for Greeks, aiming to indicate descent and citizenship simultaneously." from wikipedia.

The term "Greek, Graikos" (not Hellene) was used during the whole Byzantine period to describe the ethnicity of the Greek people in the Byzantine Empire Empire.

From the 9th century the term "Hellene" returns, gradually of course, and starts describing the Romans-Romioi:

"Moreover, it might even be said that in this movement the Greeks rediscovered themselves, returning to and giving new value to the geographical heartland of ancient Hellas. In this context and argument, the apparent return by late Byzantine writers to the use of the ancient ‘Hellene’ as ethnic signifier in preference to ‘Roman’ – which had been the overwhelmingly dominant signifier is seen as being of crucial significance in confirming a basic continuity of self-identification as Hellenic on the part of the Greeks."
BEING BYZANTINE
Greek identity before the Ottomans
GILL PAGE
CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY PRESS
http://www.scribd.com/word/removal/24361030

For example, in the 9th century Peloponnesian Arethas_of_Caesarea , one of the most important figures Byzantion produced in his Scholia he describes the inhabitants of his native Peloponnesos, as "eggene hellenika gene"(indigenous(or noble) Greek race) "forgetting" the other meaning of the word "Hellene" (idololater), even if he was an Archbishop and one of the three four greatest Byzantine theologians

The three ethnonyms (Graikos, Hellene and Romioi) remain until the foudation of the modernGreek state, when "Hellene" becomes official.

That notion of Greekness ethnically within the Roman political identity, was strong throughout the Roman period, as expressed in Panhellenion institution, the Second Sophistic and till the end and after the fall of the Empire in 15 century Mystras. That’s why emperor Julian praises empress Eusebia coming from “a pure Greek race, from the purest Greek, from the metropolis of Makedonia(Thessalonike)”.

In the same spirit the 4th century emperor boast because :
“Esmen gar tes Hellados oi peri ten Thraken kai ten Ionian oikountes eggonoi, kai ostis emon me liana gnomon, pothei proeipein tous pateras kai ten choran auten aspasasthai.”
“We the inhabitants of Thrace and Ionia are sons of Greece, and whoever from us isn’t ungrateful, desire to salute their fathers and kiss her ground(Greece’s)”.

You have campaigns in Polis in order to liberate Cretans from Saracens since “prepon estin yper ton christianon kai homophylon agonisasthai”- “ its an obligation to fight for those with we share the same religion and race” (Theophan.Continuat., p.475.7-8)

[wvwvw]

Greeks + Anatolians.
Quite a lot of Armenians and even a few Syrians too.

Armenians never used the term Romios.

They had their own ethnonym, language, army and religion.

The Armenian and Greek Orthodox Church split some 500 years before the Catholic/Orthodox schism.

There were Greek minorities in Syria of Greek descend, but they had ceased to be part of Byzantium early on. Keep in mind that after Justinian's reign (527 A.D -565 AD) the loss of Syria, Palestine, and Egypt to the Arabs, Byzantium became more consolidated like a medieval Greek state as opposed to a mere component of the Roman Empire.

[TheOldNorth]

Politically, yes
Genetically, no

[wvwvw]

For Levantines and Middle Easterners in general, Roman is synonymous with Greek, since we were part and influenced by the Greek-speaking part of the empire. If you say Roman Empire, we think of Constantinople and Antioch, not Rome.

Even the two largest Levantine Churches, the Greek Orthodox and the Melkite Greek Catholic Churches of Antioch, they are actually called Roum (Roman) in Aramaic/Arabic and not Younan (ethnic Greek).

The Muslim Arabs also used to pejoratively refer to us as Roum, even tho our ethnic identity was Syrian (only Christians identified as Syrian, which used to be synonymous for Christian).

The liturgy is in Arabic right? Initially the service was in Greek. Only ethnic Greek by decent were Greek Orthodox. Assyrians were Assyrian Orthodox, and Syrians were Syrian Orthodox and both spoke Aramaic.

Gradually as the Greek community assimilated and intermarried the language of the liturgy changed to Arabic.

"Christians in Syria make up about 10% of the population.[1][2] The country's largest Christian denomination is the Eastern Orthodox Church of Antioch (known as the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East),[3][4] closely followed by the Melkite Catholic Church, one of the Eastern Catholic Churches, which has a common root with the Eastern Orthodox Church of Antioch,[5] and then by an Oriental Orthodoxy churches like Syriac Orthodox Church and Armenian Apostolic Church."

How cool that you are GREEK Orthodox

[wvwvw]

Politically, yes
Genetically, no

The Romans were not just Italics but were of Greek descend as well. Look up who Morges, Roman and Italus were. The Roman historians all acknowledged that the tribes of Rome at the time of Romulus included Arcadians from the time of Evender and thats why the worship of Herakles was included in the Roman religion.

The Greek colonisation of Italy is completely corroborated by the archaeology

Arcadian colonisation of Italy c.1460 BC
Colonisation of Italy by Hyllus c.1240 BC
Achaean migration to Italy and Cyprus 1183 BC
Messenian and Lacedaemonian colonisation of Italy c.730 BC and 665 BC

And there were many others as well such as the reign of Kronos in c.1673 BC.

And don't forget that the God Julius Caesar claimed Greek decent. His ancestor had come from Troy. When the Aenead was written the Trojan, and Trojan-Achaean tribes of Italy were all still extant and their accounts were varifiable.

[bandeirante]

Not quite. They call themselves Romioi, not Romans. There is a difference between Roman and Romios.

Under Roman rule the Greeks were granted the right to preserve their identity (i.e. culturally, racially, ethnically, religiously, linguistically, etc.).

The Greeks took the title Roman and tranmogrified it into "Romios" with the advent of the medieval age in order to preserve their identity and adapt to the changing times. Romios was not a word to connotate all populations. It was a specific title made by a specific people and directed toward a specific people, the Greeks.

The term "Romios" transcended political and economic connotations. In fact, the term referred to a person of Greek ethno/racial descent, Roman citizenship, and a follower of the Greek Orthodox religion.

To be a Romios required such things to be fulfilled. A Romios is simply a "medieval Hellene." Granted the term "Hellene" was not used during the time of the Eastern Roman Empire, the term's ethnic, racial, cultural, religious, and linguistic connotations were transferred into a different name (i.e. Romios). This helped Greeks adapt to the changes in the world as everything went from the ancient to the medieval while at the same time preserving their identity.

Keep in mind that Medieval Greeks didn't only calle themselves Romios. They had other ethnonyms as well, depending on whether they wanted to use it for legal, administrative or other use.

The ethnonym "Hellene" declined after Caracalla granted Roman citizenship to everyone and the increase of Christian population.

"Hellene" came to mean pagan Greek firstly, and during the early Byzantine era, all pagans.

Historians and other authors use the terms Romhellenes and Graecoromans for Greeks, aiming to indicate descent and citizenship simultaneously." from wikipedia.

The term "Greek, Graikos" (not Hellene) was used during the whole Byzantine period to describe the ethnicity of the Greek people in the Byzantine Empire Empire.

From the 9th century the term "Hellene" returns, gradually of course, and starts describing the Romans-Romioi:

"Moreover, it might even be said that in this movement the Greeks rediscovered themselves, returning to and giving new value to the geographical heartland of ancient Hellas. In this context and argument, the apparent return by late Byzantine writers to the use of the ancient ‘Hellene’ as ethnic signifier in preference to ‘Roman’ – which had been the overwhelmingly dominant signifier is seen as being of crucial significance in confirming a basic continuity of self-identification as Hellenic on the part of the Greeks."
BEING BYZANTINE
Greek identity before the Ottomans
GILL PAGE
CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY PRESS
http://www.scribd.com/word/removal/24361030

For example, in the 9th century Peloponnesian Arethas_of_Caesarea , one of the most important figures Byzantion produced in his Scholia he describes the inhabitants of his native Peloponnesos, as "eggene hellenika gene"(indigenous(or noble) Greek race) "forgetting" the other meaning of the word "Hellene" (idololater), even if he was an Archbishop and one of the three four greatest Byzantine theologians

The three ethnonyms (Graikos, Hellene and Romioi) remain until the foudation of the modernGreek state, when "Hellene" becomes official.

That notion of Greekness ethnically within the Roman political identity, was strong throughout the Roman period, as expressed in Panhellenion institution, the Second Sophistic and till the end and after the fall of the Empire in 15 century Mystras. That’s why emperor Julian praises empress Eusebia coming from “a pure Greek race, from the purest Greek, from the metropolis of Makedonia(Thessalonike)”.

In the same spirit the 4th century emperor boast because :
“Esmen gar tes Hellados oi peri ten Thraken kai ten Ionian oikountes eggonoi, kai ostis emon me liana gnomon, pothei proeipein tous pateras kai ten choran auten aspasasthai.”
“We the inhabitants of Thrace and Ionia are sons of Greece, and whoever from us isn’t ungrateful, desire to salute their fathers and kiss her ground(Greece’s)”.

You have campaigns in Polis in order to liberate Cretans from Saracens since “prepon estin yper ton christianon kai homophylon agonisasthai”- “ its an obligation to fight for those with we share the same religion and race” (Theophan.Continuat., p.475.7-8)

roman empire: latins empire(italian and iberians)
Byzantine empire: greek empire

[catgeorge]

roman empire: latins empire(italian and iberians)
Byzantine empire: greek empire

No - Roman Empire was senatorial and imperial learn your roman history.

[bandeirante]

No - Roman Empire was senatorial and imperial learn your roman history.

roman empire: empire of latins(west)!
Eastern European Empire of the Greeks(no roman)