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Thread: Which language should be used as lingua franca?

  1. #51
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    I'd like countryside northwestern Lithuanian.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakha View Post
    Agree. Russian, alongside with Finnish, is truly a beautiful language and richest out of all European languages. English, German, Dutch, Italian and all others make me vomit when I hear them.
    I actually hate the way the standard Finnish dialect sounds. It is an artificial dialect that was created in the 1800s as a compromise between Eastern and Western Finnish dialects. Its earliest speakers came from the educated classes, who until that point had been Swedish-speaking, so it has prosodical similarities with Swedish, and overall it sounds really fake and gay, similar to how British accent sounds compared to American accent. Standard Finnish also has many unnatural features that were never part of spoken Finnish, such as that personal pronouns are omitted when person is expressed by verbal suffixes.

    The Southwestern Finnish dialect that my grandparents spoke actually sounds beautiful: http://scripta.kotus.fi/av/kuuntele/somero.mp3.

    Estonian sounds a lot better than Standard Finnish, because it sounds like Southwestern Finnish dialects.

    Standard Finnish has also has a high syllable-to-morpheme ratio. For example the Lord's Prayer (full version) has 146 syllables in Standard Finnish, 124 syllables in my translation to a Southwestern Finnish dialect, 118 syllables in Estonian, and 93 syllables in English:

    English (93 syllables, 280 letters):

    Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen.

    Estonian (118 syllables, 296 letters):

    Meie Isa, kes sa oled taevas, pühitsetud saagu sinu nimi, sinu riik tulgu, sinu tahtmine sündigu, kui taevas nõnda ka maa peal. Meie igapäevane leib anna meile tänapäev, ja anna andeks meile meie võlad, kui ka meie andeks anname oma võlglastele. Ja ära saada meid mitte kiusatuse sisse, vaid päästa meid ära kurjast. Sest sinu päralt on riik ja vägi ja au igavesti. Aamen.

    Southwestern Finnish dialect (my translation from Standard Finnish version) (124 syllables, 335 letters):

    Isä meijän, ketä on taivaas. Pyhitetty olkoon sun nimi. Tulkoon sun valtakunta. Tapahtukoon sun tahto, maan pääl ja taivaas ja. Anna meitil tänäpän meijän jokapäivänen leipä. Ja anna meitil meijän synnit anteeks, niinkun mekin annetaan anteeks niil, ketkä on meitii vastaan rikkonu. Ja älä saata meitii kiusaukseen, mut päästä meijät pahast. Koska sun on valtakunta ja voima ja kunnia iankaikkisest. Aamen.

    Standard Finnish (146 syllables, 381 letters):

    Isä meidän, joka olet taivaissa. Pyhitetty olkoon sinun nimesi. Tulkoon sinun valtakuntasi. Tapahtukoon sinun tahtosi, myös maan päällä niin kuin taivaassa. Anna meille tänä päivänä meidän jokapäiväinen leipämme. Ja anna meille meidän syntimme anteeksi, niin kuin mekin anteeksi annamme niille, jotka ovat meitä vastaan rikkoneet. Äläkä saata meitä kiusaukseen, vaan päästä meidät pahasta. Sillä sinun on valtakunta ja voima ja kunnia iankaikkisesti. Aamen.

    Also Finnish wouldn't be a good lingua franca, because Finnish inflection and conjugation are impossible to learn. Finnish even has 51 nominal inflection classes (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appen...nal_inflection):


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    Veteran Member Benyzero's Avatar
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    yiddish

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    Ecclesiastical Latin.

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    New Member Rugius's Avatar
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    German. It was the lingua franca in central and eastern Europe for much of history.

  6. #56
    Veteran Member Arsen_'s Avatar
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    If it would depend on me then I would choose Armenian language as lingua franca and not because of I am Armenian myself but because of the very objective reasons making Armenian ideally suited for that role.

    First of all I definitely wouldn't choose any major language with many dozens millions of native speakers like English, Chinese, Spanish, Arabic, Russian etc to prevent one-sided dominance and threat for all other languages. And by the way that's why such thing is never going to happen unless there is a total world war resulted in victory of one major language carriers and total destruction of all others.

    Second, Armenian language is an immensely rich language with more than one and a half thousand years of continuous ongoing writing and literary tradition. Grabar (the Old Armenian language) was already codified in the fifth century and had more than 70,000 words. I remember when, several years ago, the anniversary of Narekatsi (Armenian poet of the 10th century) was celebrated, his works were planned to be translated into other languages, then many translators who spoke other languages complained and had great difficulties. They said that they lacked enough language tools, which could convey all the shades of meanings and subtleties, all synonymous series and the like that were in these Armenian-language works.

    And last but not least. Native speakers of Armenian live everywhere, almost in all countries, so it would be rather easy to find teachers and to teach Armenian language to all locals of this planet.
    Last edited by Arsen_; 12-20-2019 at 06:22 AM.

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    Veteran Member Arsen_'s Avatar
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    Here, for example, several lines translated into English from one work of Narekatsi written in Armenian more than a thousand years ago:

    Now compile and condemn your soul’s sins,
    reproach yourself with varied images, my soul,
    in a relentless stream of words:
    evil, disobedience, error,
    desertion, surrender,
    rage, impudence, stupidity,
    stupor, daydreaming, slumber,
    pagan thoughts, base words,
    pleasure in dissolution, dalliance,
    desire of what is hateful to God,
    impious, incorrigible, uncivilized,
    faulty, feeble, weak, stingy,
    untethered, ridiculous, lusting,6
    comic, scandalous, deceitful,
    brazen, quarrelsome, outlaw,
    suffocating the soul, shaking cowardice,
    unruly branching bush,
    dishonorable indulgence, contentiousness, sulking,
    baseless hatred, lax titillation,
    failure to weigh small things, breach of promise,
    forgetfulness of vows, distortion of similarity,
    disguised by veils, extravagance of glory seeking,
    arrogance, roguishness, egotism,7
    will to power, conspiracy with criminals,8
    meaningless gossip, vicious behavior,
    collaboration with the conniving tempter,
    confusion, selling of life for the price of butchery,
    loss of tradition, betrayal of homeland,
    attractive bondage,9
    yoked to lawlessness like oxen,10
    living in filth, abandoning the good,
    giving in to bad impulses, worse than
    before conversion,11
    new designs, untoward intentions, unstable will,
    pointless shouting, letter over spirit,
    lawlessness, despotic rule,
    and other things that cannot be spoken, written, told
    or countenanced.

    ...

    I am not proud, for I am justly scorned.
    I am not arrogant, for I am blameworthy.
    I am not haughty, for I am abandoned.
    I do not boast, for I am reduced to silence.
    I do not rebel, for I am mocked.
    I do not rejoice, for I am pitiful.
    I do not justify myself, for I am wicked.
    A horse does not go straight without someone
    at the reins,
    nor does a ship sail forth without a helmsman,2
    nor does a ploughshare make a furrow
    without a plowman,
    nor does a pair of oxen move properly without a driver,
    nor does a cloud float in the sky without the wind,
    nor do the stars appear and disappear without
    a scheduler,
    nor does the sun course through the zodiac without
    the action of air.
    Last edited by Arsen_; 12-20-2019 at 06:07 AM.

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    Shpiking inglish ?? !! Ili Hal Haber si nain
    Шпикинг Инглиш ?? !!! Или .... Из хАбер си найн ???? : Picard1:
    ...Even if a man lives well, he dies and another one comes into existence. Let the one who comes later upon seeing this inscription remember the one who had made it. And the name is Omurtag, Kanasubigi.

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