My paleo-Balkan ancestors were Thracians

[Dušan]

You may be bit more Slavic than me (I am in 60-65 range) you may be around 70% in fact, right? You are very Slavic Dušan.
But I plot more northern than you do because my pre-Slavic part was considerably more NW shifted than yours.

I am 63% Slavic according to FTDNA, and 58-68% according to Eurogenes calculators K13 and K15.

[Jana]

I am 63% Slavic according to FTDNA, and 58-68% according to Eurogenes calculators K13 and K15.

Almost same as me than. K13 closest mixed mode:

58.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 41.2% North_Italian @ 3.88

My father is almost identical to me:

57% Southwest_Russian + 43% North_Italian @ 2.59

[CommonSense]

It's like you guys forget that many people from the outside were settled by the Romans in this region. In the eastern Dinaric zone we have many people today with non paleo-Balkanic and non-Slavic Y-DNA haplogroups like j2a, j2b-m205, g2a-l497, etc, which is a testament that the people who lived here before Serbs arrived can't be defined as only Illyrians or Thracians.

[vbnetkhio]

Myceneans and HRV IA would be a bit more distant to Romanians and Bulgarians than Medieval Greeks were, both in time period and geography (and thus would've had less similar ancestral components as well).

Also, as I mentioned, there's a lot of shared non-Slavic ancestry between Greeks, Romanians, and Bulgarians. In fact, the majority of their shared ancestry is non-Slavic.

i'm confused now.
if that sample gets 30% Bulgarian + 70% Greek islander as the best match, and Bulgarian average contains 40% Slavic in it, than this sample surely has around 12% actual Slavic influence, not just any northern shift.
he isn't just matching one part of the Bulgarian. he matches everything that's contained in the Bulgarian average.

However, its logical to assume that they were Greek descendants of the Macedonian Empire Greeks since they cluster with Greeks.

they cluster with modern Cretans who have strong Slavic, Germanic and Middle eastern influences.
ancient Macedonians and Greeks would be closer to Mycenaeans or BGR_IA

[Pribislav]

I am Dalmatian Croat and in Dalmatia lived Illyrians.
Hungarian samples are from Budapest and Slovenian from Ljubljana so? But you didn't mention that. People who get Thracians are not native here.

Only 50% dear.

Don't be ashamed of your paternal muslim ancestors from Dubca!

[Jana]

Only 50% dear.

Don't be ashamed of your paternal muslim ancestors from Dubca!

Also from interior Dalmatia by origin.

[vbnetkhio]

I just want to find out why I don't get any North Italian - if it is supposed to be closest to Illyrians, in all these calculators.

only the Delmatian samples are similar to North Italians.

i think the border between HRV_IA-like tribes and BGR_IA-like tribes passed somewhere through modern Montenegro and Bosnia, based on k13 results of people from those areas.

[Jana]

only the Delmatian samples are similar to North Italians.

Not only. Slavonia and Baranja bronze age samples too.
Vučedol (R1b-Z2103)

Eurogenes K13

1 North_Atlantic 31.01
2 West_Med 28.48
3 East_Med 15
4 West_Asian 13.66
5 Baltic 8.97
6 Red_Sea 2.66
7 Oceanian 0.18
8 Amerindian 0.05

1 North_Italian 7.92
2 Tuscan 10.81
3 Spanish_Andalucia 11.2
4 Spanish_Extremadura 11.37
5 Portuguese 12.51
6 Spanish_Murcia 13.02
7 Spanish_Galicia 13.08
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.14
9 Spanish_Valencia 13.28
10 Spanish_Cataluna 13.52
11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 13.88
12 Spanish_Cantabria 14.72
13 Italian_Abruzzo 15.22
14 Spanish_Aragon 15.66
15 West_Sicilian 15.88
16 Southwest_French 16.07
17 Greek_Thessaly 16.84
18 French 17.23
19 Romanian 18.45
20 Central_Greek 18.66

1 71.9% Southwest_French + 28.1% Armenian @ 3.52
2 80.7% Spanish_Andalucia + 19.3% Georgian @ 3.66
3 81.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.4% Abhkasian @ 3.71
4 79% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 21% Abhkasian @ 4.2
5 79.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.4% Adygei @ 4.22
6 73.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 26.1% Armenian @ 4.26
7 76.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 23.1% Abhkasian @ 4.28
8 78.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 21.9% Georgian @ 4.28
9 75.7% Spanish_Aragon + 24.3% Abhkasian @ 4.37
10 79.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.2% Ossetian @ 4.38
11 74.6% Spanish_Aragon + 25.4% Georgian @ 4.39
12 75.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.1% Georgian @ 4.41
13 80.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 19.7% North_Ossetian @ 4.43
14 79.2% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.8% Balkar @ 4.44
15 72.8% Southwest_French + 27.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.54
16 79.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.7% Kabardin @ 4.59
17 62.3% French_Basque + 37.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.6
18 75.3% Southwest_French + 24.7% Abhkasian @ 4.63
19 74.2% Southwest_French + 25.8% Georgian @ 4.74
20 78.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 21.2% Kumyk @ 4.8

Eurogenes K15

1 Atlantic 25.55
2 West_Med 22.95
3 North_Sea 16.74
4 West_Asian 14.6
5 East_Med 11.36
6 Baltic 3.48
7 Red_Sea 2.79
8 Eastern_Euro 2.41
9 Oceanian 0.13


1 North_Italian 8.48
2 Spanish_Andalucia 10.72
3 Spanish_Extremadura 11.01
4 Tuscan 11.07
5 Portuguese 11.67
6 Spanish_Murcia 11.72
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 11.84
8 Spanish_Cataluna 12.06
9 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 12.2
10 Spanish_Valencia 12.23
11 Spanish_Galicia 12.66
12 Spanish_Cantabria 13.28
13 Spanish_Aragon 13.78
14 Southwest_French 14.8
15 Italian_Abruzzo 15.8
16 French 16.04
17 West_Sicilian 16.9
18 Greek_Thessaly 17.86
19 Greek 17.89
20 Bulgarian 18.27


1 78.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 21.2% Abhkasian @ 4.27
2 77.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 22.5% Georgian @ 4.28
3 81% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 19% Abhkasian @ 4.58
4 76.9% Spanish_Aragon + 23.1% Georgian @ 4.61
5 78.2% Spanish_Aragon + 21.8% Abhkasian @ 4.62
6 79.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 20.1% Georgian @ 4.62
7 83% Spanish_Andalucia + 17% Abhkasian @ 4.81
8 81.9% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.1% Georgian @ 4.86
9 81% Spanish_Andalucia + 19% Ossetian @ 5.04
10 75.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.4% Armenian @ 5.06
11 79.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 20.9% Ossetian @ 5.23
12 82.8% Spanish_Extremadura + 17.2% Abhkasian @ 5.27
13 76% Spanish_Aragon + 24% Ossetian @ 5.32
14 80.9% Spanish_Valencia + 19.1% Abhkasian @ 5.34
15 79.8% Spanish_Valencia + 20.2% Georgian @ 5.43
16 81.9% Spanish_Extremadura + 18.1% Georgian @ 5.49
17 76.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 23.1% Ossetian @ 5.53
18 81.2% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.8% Adygei @ 5.54
19 81.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.2% North_Ossetian @ 5.54
20 80.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 19.2% Balkar @ 5.6



Panonnian and Dalmatian Croatia was genetically homogenous.

[Jana]

Btw this sample gets Albanians pretty close on Puntadnal, on 3rd and 5th place

1 Italian_Tuscan 5
2 Italian_Bergamo 6.73
3 Albanian 7.35
4 Greek_Thessaly 7.56
5 Kosovar 7.79
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.01
7 Macedonian 10.97
8 Greek_Central 11.29
9 Bulgarian 11.45
10 Spaniard 12.66
11 Ashkenazy_Jew 13.72
12 Italian_Sicilian 14.03
13 Montenegrin 14.17
14 Romanian 14.81
15 Serbian 15.7
16 Sephardic_Jew 18.04
17 French 18.47
18 Bosnian 19.5
19 French_Basque 20
20 Croatian 20.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 64.2% French_Basque + 35.8% Armenian @ 2.43
2 64.8% French_Basque + 35.2% Assyrian @ 2.72
3 63.8% French_Basque + 36.2% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.07
4 59.1% French_Basque + 40.9% Turkish_Kayseri @ 3.27
5 85.7% Italian_Bergamo + 14.3% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.37
6 62.6% French_Basque + 37.4% Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 3.37
7 74% Spaniard + 26% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.41
8 70.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.6% French_Basque @ 3.54
9 56.8% French_Basque + 43.2% Turkish @ 3.55
10 82.1% Italian_Bergamo + 17.9% Cypriot @ 3.55
11 64.8% Greek_Central + 35.2% French_Basque @ 3.58
12 70.5% Italian_Bergamo + 29.5% Italian_Sicilian @ 3.6
13 65.4% French_Basque + 34.6% Kurdish @ 3.66
14 59.8% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.2% French_Basque @ 3.76
15 63.6% French_Basque + 36.4% Abkhasian @ 3.78
16 70.4% Italian_Bergamo + 29.6% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 3.84
17 59.6% Italian_Bergamo + 40.4% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.85
18 86.5% Italian_Bergamo + 13.5% Armenian @ 3.86
19 86.9% Italian_Bergamo + 13.1% Assyrian @ 3.94
20 85.8% Italian_Bergamo + 14.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.09

[Coolguy1]

Yes, Croatians are the only Balkan population who’s paleo balkan ancestry comes from an HRV_MBA source. This population was identical to modern day northern Italians and carries western european drift which is lacking in the Mycenaean and BGR_IA samples. Central Balkan populations (Serbs, Bulgarians etc) score mostly BGR_IA, which is similar to the Mycenaean samples but with significantly more steppe ancestry, less farmer ancestry, and less direct CHG ancestry. Interestingly. There is a UKR_Cimmerian samples which is basically 65% farmer and 35% steppe which many balkanites score as well. Its closest modern populations are Greeks, Albanians, and Northern Italians but without any balto-slavic drift, incredible.

Greeks and Albanians mostly score Mycenaeans and BGR_IA. Mainland Greece received admixture from a CHG rich middle eastern population (something Assyrian-like, perhaps) before the Slavic migration. Albanians show some of this admixture as well, but usually less.