The Khazars. A new genetic study

[FinalFlash]

Well, their homeland is in the Levant region where their Y-DNA is very similar to the genetic isolated groups of the Levant like the Christians and the Druze. Of course, western Jews aren't fully Levantine nor Europeans - they're somewhere in between.

That may be true, but you can't deny the fact that they've transformed into something completely different than what they once were originally.

[PAGANE]

WHAT IT WAS, THE FACE OF THE "KHAZAR NATIONALITY"
The fact that such a powerful state entity as the Khazar Kaganate was inhabited by people of all kinds of nationalities has long been known from historical sources and according to anthropologists. But now this fact has been confirmed by Rostov geneticists. The author of these lines talked about this with Olga Aramova, a postgraduate student of the SFedU, a research engineer at the Southern Scientific Center of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
History of Khazaria
In the 7th - 8th centuries, in the space between the Volga and Don, a powerful state of the Middle Ages, the Khazar Kaganate, was formed from semi-nomadic peoples. The united peoples managed to create a single bright and distinctive culture. The Byzantine emperor Theophilus, at the request of the Khazar Kagan, sent the architect Petrona Kamatir to the Don, who in 837 completed the construction of the main western outpost of the Kaganate, the powerful fortress Sarkel, in the Don bend. Today it is located at the bottom of the Tsimlyansk Sea, before it was studied, as far as possible, by archaeologists.


Khazars fought constantly - both on the battlefields and on diplomatic fields. By the end of the 11th century, references to the empire, weakened by the raids of both Russian princes and the nomadic hordes of the Pechenegs, disappear from historical sources.


However, the scientist-historian Lev Gumilyov substantiates the disappearance of the Khazar Kaganate with objective factors. By the end of the 11th century, the level of the Volga rose by 22 meters and Khazaria, located mainly on the islands and along the shores of the Volga delta, like Atlantis, went under water. Today, the level of the great river is falling, and some islands are exposed, giving archaeologists hope for interesting finds.


The inhabitants of the kaganate did not wait for the river to flood their houses with gardens and numerous vineyards, and emigrated, including to the Volga steppes, and to the territory of the Lower and Middle Don and beyond, where Khazar burials are still found.


What archaeologists and anthropologists say
The graves of the inhabitants of the kaganate are relatively easy to date, since they find objects that allow them to do this - the same Byzantine coins, bits and stirrups (there are numerous tables of their typology in time), luxury items in the form of silver and gilded vessels. Stuffed horses are also found in elite military graves.


Studies of skulls from the 7th-11th century burial mounds from the Lower Don and Lower Volga regions, carried out by anthropologists, revealed that their owners had a mixed Mongoloid-Caucasian type.


Thus, Elena Batieva, Candidate of Biological Sciences, Senior Researcher of the Azov Historical, Archaeological and Paleontological Museum-Reserve, studying the remains of 86 adults and four children, found that men, like women, had a great similarity with the Huns of Transbaikalia and the Turkic-speaking nomads of the South Siberia, Altai and Kazakhstan. And the existing Caucasian component in the male remains had, in the opinion of the anthropologist, similarities with representatives of the Saltov-Mayatsk culture, which preceded the Sarmatian culture of the Lower Don and Lower Volga region in time.


A word to geneticists
Olga Aramova's work is connected with the molecular genetic study of the ancient population of the South of Russia - in particular, the Khazar Kaganate of the late 7th and early 9th centuries. She studied the remains from rich burials of the Khazar time, found on the territory of the modern Rostov region.


Nine skeletons of the Khazar time were examined, which was confirmed by radiocarbon analysis. These were burials in rich sarcophagi. These materials were kindly provided to geneticists by the Azov Museum-Reserve.


Olga Aramova investigated haplogroups in the DNA taken from the remains proposed for study (haplogroups are those DNA markers that determine a person's belonging to a particular type). And it turned out that all of them found in the eastern part of the Rostov region belong to the Asian group.


- The sample is still small, - explains Olga Yurievna. - But the data of our research differ slightly from the anthropological data. According to anthropologists, their analysis rather spoke of the Eastern European type of remains. And our data speaks of a mixed genetic origin of the Khazars, among them there are both representatives of West Eurasian and East Asian origin. At the same time, not a single owner of the studied skeletons has 100% Western European genetic origin, as was previously assumed by archaeologists.


And most importantly, they showed great heterogeneity, which speaks of the Khazar Kaganate as a unique place with more than diverse peoples living in it. And the blood of the inhabitants of Khazaria was mixed for many generations. So it is impossible to say what the "face of the Khazar nationality" looked like.


“Representatives of the Kaganate population have dissolved among the inhabitants of more powerful powers,” says Olga Aramova, “and now we do not have their direct descendants.


It is too early to draw any conclusions, but Olga plans to investigate more than a hundred skeletons from the burials of the Khazar time.
On the purity of the experiment
The Paleogenetics Laboratory of the SSC RAS ​​is developing new methods for working with such complex genetic material. So, in 2020, Olga Aramova won the UMNIK competition, where she presented a method for removing DNA and DNA-containing materials in laboratories from the samples under study. The developed complex of solutions will allow working with ancient samples that can be contaminated with modern DNA of the same archaeologists. As it turns out, this is a big problem: one eminent scientist talked about how he singled out - and it seemed carefully! - DNA from the remains of dinosaurs, and then it turned out to be his own DNA.


And if we return to those mixed human types that have been observed since the early Iron Age in eastern Eurasia, then today there are enough of them. This is evidenced by large-scale genetic studies of modern Tatars.


Original article on Russian http://werawolw.ru/?p=23210&fbclid=I...tv7KypAI2wX4Dc

[Beers]

This paper is flawed and nothing more than junk science in regard to the subject of Ashkenazim and their possible Khazar admixture.
Click this link below and read this response to this paper by Dr. Eran Elhaik, and put some balance into this thread.

Diverse genetic origins of medieval steppe nomad conquerors – a response to Mikheyev et al. (2019)
Dr. Eran Elhaik
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...01.06.885103v1

Abstract

Recently, Mikheyev et al. (2019) have produced a preprint study describing the genomes of nine Khazars archeologically dated from the 7th to the 9th centuries found in the Rostov county in modern-day Russia. Skull morphology indicated a mix of “Caucasoid” and “Mongoloid” shapes. The authors compared the samples to ancient and contemporary samples to study the genetic makeup of the Khazars and their genetic legacy and addressed the question of the relationships between the Khazar and Ashkenazic Jews. A careful examination reveals grave concerns regarding all the aspects of the study from the identification of the “Khazar” samples, the choice of environment for ancient DNA sequencing, and the analyses. The authors did not disclose the data used in their study, and their methodology is incoherent. We demonstrate that their analyses yield nonsensical results and argue that none of the claims made in this study are supported by the data unequivocally. Provided the destruction of the bone samples and the irreproducibility of the analyses, even by the forgivable standards of the field, this study is irreplicable, wasteful, and misleading.

[Pine]

This paper is flawed and nothing more than junk science in regard to the subject of Ashkenazim and their possible Khazar admixture.
Click this link below and read this response to this paper by Dr. Eran Elhaik, and put some balance into this thread.

Diverse genetic origins of medieval steppe nomad conquerors – a response to Mikheyev et al. (2019)
Dr. Eran Elhaik
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...01.06.885103v1

Elhaik is a joke. He argued that Azerbaijani Jews and Armenians are a Khazar proxy and because Ashkenazim show affinity to them, they're Khazars.

[Beers]

Elhaik is a joke. He argued that Azerbaijani Jews and Armenians are a Khazar proxy and because Ashkenazim show affinity to them, they're Khazars.

I would just read his criticism of this particular paper, and make a decision based off of that, if I was you.
To call him a "joke," and not even read his criticism of this paper in question, kind of makes you look like a joke...
Instead of you criticizing his use of genetic proxies of Khazars in a previous paper (which he took heavy fire for), how about reading his response to Mikheyev et al. (2019), ***this paper*** and opine on the facts in discussion?

[Beers]

Elhaik is a joke. He argued that Azerbaijani Jews and Armenians are a Khazar proxy and because Ashkenazim show affinity to them, they're Khazars.

I would say you calling yourself "100% Judean" is a joke and delusional.
You can't substantiate that claim scientifically, not a shred of proof for that.
And of course your ancestry, like all modern Jews, is very admixed and hardly one monolithic ancestry.
Where is your Judean DNA data set?

No doubt you like many others glom on to the "Judean" label to justify the Zionist state in the Levant?
Well if you want scientific backed facts these are them:
The vast majority of world Jewry are Ashkenazim, by autosomal genetics one can make a rock solid case that they belong in their ancestral homelands of Sicily, Crete, South Italy and the Greek Peloponnesus.
Can you or anyone else make such a case about the Levant?
You can make NO genetic case tying Ashkenazim to the Levant on an Autosomal level, 44 out of 46 chromosomes.
Uniparental sex chromosomes are not an accurate way to trace the ancestral origins of a group like Ashkenazim who have suffered severe genetic drift/bottleneck.
And even Uniparental sex chromosome studies by the most shady Zionism obsessed, hack researchers, can't help but show large maternal European lines in Ashkenazim, and much if not nearly all of the Y-dna attributed to them from the Levant could easily be explained by the fact that Ashkenazim are fundamentally a Greco-Roman population, and guess what?
Greco-Romans have a large amount of Levantine ancestry.
VERY dicey and shady determining the exact time-frame of this introgression, and it was likely in many, many, waves and far from one event.


You call scientists a "joke," but make-up a mythical ancestry for yourself out of whole cloth...
Judean my ass....
You have mental hospitals filled with people who claim to be the "Queen of England" too.

[Beers]

Well, their homeland is in the Levant region where their Y-DNA is very similar to the genetic isolated groups of the Levant like the Christians and the Druze. Of course, western Jews aren't fully Levantine nor Europeans - they're somewhere in between.

Try replacing your post with this and it will highlight your logical fallacy:

"Of course, South Italians and Sicilians aren't fully Levantine nor Europeans - they're somewhere in between."

Now tell Italy to redraw maps and make South Italy and Sicily a neutral zone between the Levant and Europe...
Send that message to Crete and mainland Southern Greece, too.
Make sure to tell all of them that they aren't Europeans, as well.
Be consistent, or be a hypocrite and reveal your double standards.

BTW, your ignorant post has a bar of "fully Levantine nor Europeans," so you basically just excluded all of Southern Europe entirely, even as you go up to Northern Italy they have substantial MENA admixture.
Sure it gets higher on a cline as you go further south, but it's at noteworthy numbers in all of Southern Europe.
Including in Slavs like Bulgarians.
Southern Albania has high MENA.
Macedonians...
Blah, blah, blah.

Well, their homeland is in the Levant region where their Y-DNA is very similar to the genetic isolated groups of the Levant like the Christians and the Druze.

I will quote Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin about this subject of uni parental markers in regard to the genetics of Ashkenazim:

A single uni parental marker that does not represent the whole history of the population, but also because its smaller effective population size makes it much more vulnerable to severe genetic drift caused by demographic bottlenecks.
This lends further support to the notion that because of the unique demographic history of EEJ, their uniparental markers were subjected to stronger genetic drift than the biparental markers and thus should not be used to trace their origin.
The autosomal genetic distance matrix has a very high correlation (0.789) with geography, whereas the X-chromosomal, Y-chromosomal and mtDNA matrices have a lower correlation (0.540, 0.395 and 0.641 respectively).
https://biologydirect.biomedcentral....1745-6150-5-57

I feel dumber just replying to you.
No doubt you have been on anthro forums for years and have learned zilch.
Blocked.

[Kamal900]

Try replacing your post with this and it will highlight your logical fallacy:


Now tell Italy to redraw maps and make South Italy and Sicily a neutral zone between the Levant and Europe...
Send that message to Crete and mainland Southern Greece, too.

BTW, your ignorant post has a bar of "fully Levantine nor Europeans," so you basically just excluded all of Southern Europe entirely, even as you go up to Northern Italy they have substantial MENA admixture.
Sure it gets higher on a cline as you go further south, but it's at noteworthy numbers in all of Southern Europe.
Including in Slavs like Bulgarians.
Southern Albania has high MENA.
Macedonians...
Blah, blah, blah.
I feel dumber just replying to you.
No doubt you have been on anthro forums for years and have learned zilch.
Blocked.

Never said that, you ass. I only stated the truth here in their genome. Never called on redrawing the map of Europe or whatever. Albanians don't even have a small percentage of west asian genes even let alone MENA in contrast to Aegean Greeks and Southern Italians who cluster the closest to Western Jewry due to sharing similar admixtures despite not having anything in common beyond that.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....520#post729520

I don't know who you are, but it's pretty clear that you're a sockpuppet account of some banned member. Then why did you talked to me then?

[Pine]

I would say you calling yourself "100% Judean" is a joke and delusional.
You can't substantiate that claim scientifically, not a shred of proof for that.
And of course your ancestry, like all modern Jews, is very admixed and hardly one monolithic ancestry.
Where is your Judean DNA data set?

I'm actually 500% Judean and just very humble

No doubt you like many others glom on to the "Judean" label to justify the Zionist state in the Levant?
Well if you want scientific backed facts these are them:
[b]The vast majority of world Jewry are Ashkenazim, by autosomal genetics one can make a rock solid case that they belong in their ancestral homelands of Sicily, Crete, South Italy and the Greek Peloponnesus.

You don't mean autosomal here, but simply autosomal plotting. There is no such thing as a "rock solid case" with autosomal plotting. Mixed people plot in locations they have 0 ancestry from.

Can you or anyone else make such a case about the Levant? You can make NO genetic case tying Ashkenazim to the Levant on an Autosomal level, 44 out of 46 chromosomes.

Yes, when you combine autosomal plotting with the amount of north European segments Ashkenazim have, and drift from other Western Jewish groups, it's clear that the Levant has to be a substantial component, or else Romaniotes are also a bunch of converts.

Uniparental sex chromosomes are not an accurate way to trace the ancestral origins of a group like Ashkenazim who have suffered severe genetic drift/bottleneck.
And even Uniparental sex chromosome studies by the most shady Zionism obsessed, hack researchers, can't help but show large Maternal European lines in Ashkenazim, and much if not nearly all of the Y-dna attributed to them from the Levant could easily be explained by the fact that Ashkenazim are fundamentally a Greco-Roman population, and guess what?
Greco-Romans have a large amount of Levantine ancestry.
VERY dicey and shady determining the exact time-frame of this introgression, and it was likely in many, many, waves and far from one event.

Levantine Y-DNA is a fluke of the bottleneck, but European MTDNA isn't? Amazing.

You call scientists a "joke," but make-up a mythical ancestry for yourself out of whole cloth...
Judean my ass....
You have mental hospitals filled with people who claim to be the "Queen of England" too.

No one takes Elhaik seriously.

[Pine]

[QUOTE=Beers;7046035]

I will quote Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin about this subject of uni parental markers in regard to the genetics of Ashkenazim:

A single uni parental marker that does not represent the whole history of the population, but also because its smaller effective population size makes it much more vulnerable to severe genetic drift caused by demographic bottlenecks.
This lends further support to the notion that because of the unique demographic history of EEJ, their uniparental markers were subjected to stronger genetic drift than the biparental markers and thus should not be used to trace their origin.
The autosomal genetic distance matrix has a very high correlation (0.789) with geography, whereas the X-chromosomal, Y-chromosomal and mtDNA matrices have a lower correlation (0.540, 0.395 and 0.641 respectively).
https://biologydirect.biomedcentral....1745-6150-5-57

This paper hasn't aged well. What he's saying may be true for unmixed populations, which Ashkenazim clearly aren't. He also has Ashkenazi MTDNA plotting beside Palestinians. You sure you want to use him?