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Thread: Copt activist arrested for 'terrorism' in Egypt

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pine View Post
    To put it in perspective, there are probably more hate crimes against reform and conservative synagogues in Israel than against churches. Why is Likud racist?
    It's a far-right nationalist party, and many of it's members including Netanyahu are very racist to the core.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppo900 View Post
    It's a far-right nationalist party, and many of it's members including Netanyahu are very racist to the core.
    Thats what the left is saying about Trump and the GOP.

    I think who really is dangerous and similar to isis, is hamas.

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    Member Yorgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppo900 View Post
    They're not your "brothers" since Copts don't cluster with any Levantine groups besides Palestinians and Jordanians as well as to other Egyptians and even to Arabians as well. The same's true for the ancient Egyptians btw. Sectarianism is pretty much the norm in the Levant and Egypt, that's for sure. The Copts here in the UAE are doing just fine.

    Ancient Egyptians from New Kingdom period:

    Distance to: EGY_Late_Period
    0.04819656 Yemenite_Dhamar
    0.04939434 Yemenite_Amran
    0.05178746 Yemenite_Ma'rib
    0.05512937 Yemenite_Jew
    0.05694519 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
    0.05723044 BedouinA
    0.05875959 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
    0.06219038 Palestinian
    0.06348335 BedouinB
    0.06664471 Saudi
    0.06669452 Samaritan
    0.06981400 Yemenite_Mahra
    0.07289655 Tunisian_Jew
    0.07623195 Libyan_Jew
    0.07838259 Egyptian
    0.07898094 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.08070070 Lebanese_Christian
    0.08497977 Karaite_Egypt
    0.08757410 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.08947886 Lebanese_Druze
    0.09099972 Druze
    0.09159035 Syrian_Jew
    0.09175144 Moroccan_Jew
    0.09280638 Syrian
    0.09339946 Romaniote_Jew

    Ancient Egyptians from Ptolemy period:

    Distance to: EGY_Hellenistic
    0.05517412 Yemenite_Dhamar
    0.05914018 Yemenite_Amran
    0.06050051 Yemenite_Ma'rib
    0.06198049 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
    0.06254366 Yemenite_Jew
    0.06465316 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
    0.06918032 BedouinA
    0.07241956 BedouinB
    0.07441549 Saudi
    0.07570574 Palestinian
    0.07657475 Yemenite_Mahra
    0.07802007 Samaritan
    0.08271892 Egyptian
    0.08690035 Tunisian_Jew
    0.09057689 Libyan_Jew
    0.09497840 Lebanese_Christian
    0.09498329 Karaite_Egypt
    0.09722658 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.09990951 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.10160428 Lebanese_Druze
    0.10372098 Syrian
    0.10414060 Druze
    0.10470074 Syrian_Jew
    0.10583212 Moroccan_Jew
    0.10742706 Romaniote_Jew

    Oh, and don't pretend you care about them considering that the Maronite Christians in countries like Canada and other western countries even bully Copts just to please their White masters. Bitch please. Take your christ-tard beliefs somewhere else. Most Euro members here don't give a flying fuck about your kind.

    Oh, and one last thing. I'm not a Muslim either as what you claimed in the other thread before Loki closed the thread down. I'm an atheist, and all of the Abrahamic religions are bad
    And should I care about their genetics because? They are Christians and that's ALL that's matters. We're brothers in Christ. They share the same struggles as us and basically the same culture.

    Stop pushing this 'Abrahamic religions' bs, Muslims worship Satan and not the God of Abraham.

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    Survivor samario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppo900 View Post
    Israel is ethnocentric while the UAE isn't. Yeah, it is but democracy doesn't mean that it's based on civic nationalism like the US, so they wouldn't be able to assimilate unless they fully converted to Judaism and join the Jewish tribe so to speak. Arabic is a Semitic language btw very closely related to Aramaic and Hebrew(Canaanite). UAE isn't fully secular or shari3a for that matter but rather in between, but things are getting more and more better here. We have a lot of Coptic churches here and so on, and they're living in peace with the Muslims here. Not to mention that it's very illegal for hate speech against religion, race and etc to the point that you'd be fined for over 1 million dirhams on that. I'm not even joking. Israel doesn't have such laws against hate speech, especially under the rule of the Likud party that is very racist to the core.
    It is? It's mostly theo-centric, I believe. Many Yemenite Jews, for instance, have Subsaharan African ancestry. Language also plays a key role. Was intermarriage of the Jewish community in countries like Yemen non-existent? I know for sure they mixed with the local population of Europe. The genetic contribution of host populations to the Jewish gene pool varies whether it may be the Jewish community in Yemen or the Jewish community in Eastern Europe, etc.

    All of these populations share some degree of common heritage, but it's not exactly the same as they all took different paths and incorporated elements of the host populations.

    Maybe they are racist towards Gulf Arabs?

    I think culture and language is more important than race in Israel. Arabic is a Semitic language but not native to Canaan.

    UAE is not ethnocentric at all, either. Emiratis are a minority there, but it's even more theo-centric than Israel in my opinion and offers less freedom to non-Muslim groups. The Christian population of Israel is the only Christian population portraying a rise in population. I'm glad to hear the UAE is on its way to become more secular.

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    Survivor samario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorgo View Post
    Egypt likes to keep Copts really poor and impoverished so they don't have self-determination and seek autonomy. We're talking about at least 15 million Christians who are systematically suppressed. They are by far one of the largest ethnic groups worldwide who don't have their own autonomy.

    The only solution would be if the Sinai is given to the Copts so they can form their own country. As a Levantine Christian I wouldn't mind living in a Copt country, they are my brothers.
    Interesting. Well the Sinai peninsula has been a disputed territory and only came under Egyptian rule just recently. Good luck with that. Please capture the Gaza Strip whilst you are at it. The Muslims' military base for terrorist attacks. Is the Sinai peninsula arable land?

    I like the secular Egypt idea better with deep roots in Pharaonism.
    Last edited by samario; 01-02-2020 at 06:59 AM.

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    Survivor samario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppo900 View Post
    They're not your "brothers" since Copts don't cluster with any Levantine groups besides Palestinians and Jordanians as well as to other Egyptians and even to Arabians as well. The same's true for the ancient Egyptians btw. Sectarianism is pretty much the norm in the Levant and Egypt, that's for sure. The Copts here in the UAE are doing just fine.
    How about Israelites? Do they cluster closer to Syrians and Lebanese? The Lebanese and Syrians are grouped together with the Palestinians, Samaritans, Jews for a reason, no? They are part of the Levant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samario View Post
    How about Israelites? Do they cluster closer to Syrians and Lebanese? The Lebanese and Syrians are grouped together with the Palestinians, Samaritans, Jews for a reason, no? They are part of the Levant.
    They cluster the closest to Samaritans and to Palestinian Christians, and the Israelite ancestry among Palestinian Muslims is around more than 55% on average while the rest is Egyptian and Arabian with some East African admixture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samario View Post
    It is? It's mostly theo-centric, I believe. Many Yemenite Jews, for instance, have Subsaharan African ancestry. Language also plays a key role. Was intermarriage of the Jewish community in countries like Yemen non-existent? I know for sure they mixed with the local population of Europe. The genetic contribution of host populations to the Jewish gene pool varies whether it may be the Jewish community in Yemen or the Jewish community in Eastern Europe, etc.

    All of these populations share some degree of common heritage, but it's not exactly the same as they all took different paths and incorporated elements of the host populations.

    Maybe they are racist towards Gulf Arabs?

    I think culture and language is more important than race in Israel. Arabic is a Semitic language but not native to Canaan.

    UAE is not ethnocentric at all, either. Emiratis are a minority there, but it's even more theo-centric than Israel in my opinion and offers less freedom to non-Muslim groups. The Christian population of Israel is the only Christian population portraying a rise in population. I'm glad to hear the UAE is on its way to become more secular.
    Jews are not a race but an ethnicity. Jews in Israel are very ethnocentric to the bone, so they don't like gentiles in general all that much really. Yes, the UAE is more theo-centric than Israel when it comes to religion, but nowhere near ethnocentric as them, so they don't mind foreigners living here to the point they are a minority in their own nation in contrast to Israel.

  9. #49
    Identical Twin Bassel's Avatar
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    This has been an on-going theme for most of the 25th of January revolution era activists and modern activists as the Authoritarian government of Egypt tightens its fists on opposition groups. It is less about Christianity and more about being a part of the Maspero Youth Group which started as consequence of the 2011 Maspero Demonstrations' that ended with nothing short of a massacre of protesters by the government, these demonstrations first began as a protest against the demolition of an Aswanese church by Salafi extremists amidst denial by the local mayor of the incident, later claiming it was built on unlawful grounds, but later developed as chants against the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) were echoed by the participants, which ruled the country at the time during the interim period of the transition between the ousted president Hosni Mubarak's rule and the to-be-held elections, failing to hasten its fulfillment of the people's demands. The SCAF responsible for that massacre is the same SCAF that's ruling Egypt to this day, and it has been constantly working on suppressing the remnants of this group along with many others ever since.

    In 2021, human rights lawyer Amr Imam, journalist Ahmed Shaker, activist Mohamed Adel (A founder of the April 6th Youth Movement, a 25th of January revolution era activist group), journalist Esraa Abdel Fattah, engineer Yehia Hussein Abdel Hady, Dr. Yahya Al-Qazzaz, labour activist Rashad Kamal, Dr. Abdel Moneim Abul-Fotouh, human rights defender Sanaa Seif, journalist Hisham Gaafar, human rights lawyer Haitham Mohamedeen, human rights lawyer Sayed al-Banna, human rights defender Mohamed Adel, journalists Hossam Moanes and Hesham Fouad, human rights activist Alaa Abdel Fattah, human rights lawyer Zyad El-Elaimy, blogger Mohamed Ibrahim Radwan (Owner of the Youtube channel Oxygen Egypt, which documents human rights conditions in Egypt), human rights lawyer Sayed el-Banna, human rights lawyer Mohamed el-Baqer, human rights lawyer Mahienour Al-Masry, journalists Khaled Daoud, Solafa Magdy and Hossam al-Sayyad , human rights lawyer Mohab El-Ebrashi, human rights lawyer Mohamed Ramadan, along with many others were all detained under the charges of joining a terrorist group, insulting the president, misusing social media and publishing false news.

    Notice the repetitive theme of charges given to those apprehended by the government, mostly activists and human rights lawyers, the same charges that were given to activist Ramy Kamel which have become a motto of regime's crackdown on opposition figures. None of these people have any links with terrorist groups, neither do they support the Egyptian-classified terrorist group the Muslim Brotherhood, but they all have one thing in common, which is that they criticized the president's and the government's actions, the true reason why they were apprehended. The Egyptian government, although has a history of religious minority negligence and oppression, doesn't concern itself with religion as it has little to no real effect on its rule as much as political opposition, the only real threat to their political strong-hand. Almost all of the recently detained activists, if not all this year, were Muslims, under the same charges as their previously-detained Christian counterparts, and they form the majority of detainees in general throughout the decade, but I get the pull of international media when it comes to news of a human rights abuse against a part of the Egyptian Christian community, yet, it can be easily deceiving to the common person out of Egypt to earn themselves a polarized lens through which they look at the political situation in Egypt with a lack of a proper context to the events. Tossing the precursors to this matter away as simple minority oppression is not only a great understatement of the real problem, but an insult to the work of these journalists whose work encompassed a wide range of subjects and problems, all of which they were attempting to shine light at, only for an iota of light to be shined at a part of them.

    With no offense to your person, you have made some unbased claims regarding the general opinions of Egyptian Muslims regarding their Christian counterparts, no, local Muslims don't truly hate their Christian neighbors, I have been living and still am living among Christians no different than I live with the Muslims, my Christian friends are as dear to me as my Muslim friends, and a religious strife isn't on the average person's shopping list. Neither the educational, ideological, nor the living conditions allow a level of comfort as to allow the common man to start brewing side agendas to Egypt's ethno-political reform. The common person's greatest concern is to live a comfortable life with a suitable living wage and humane living conditions, both Muslims and Christians I meet babble with the same intensity about the government and the living conditions, and the great majority of people don't share that view that you claim is predominant.

    "Young Copt women are kidnapped everyday in areas like upper Egypt and forced to marry the Muslim kidnapper and never allowed to see their Christian family again." The only incidents I've heard of this matter was from Central Asian countries where bride kidnapping is a cultural phenomenon, but I'm yet to hear of such an incident happen in the modern time, and I gladly ask you to provide your sources for such a claim. There were cases of Muslims on the other hand who converted to Christianity and were forcibly "re-converted" back to Islam, if this is what you intended to mention.

    "The government seldomly allows the construction of new Churches, but when they do, hordes of Muslims mobilize themselves to 'protest' and attack Christians. These people are so evil they won't even tolerate Copts to congregate and pray together in a private home because it's still considered a form of Church." It's true that the government of Egypt still asks for permission for church building, unlike Mosques which (until recently) didn't require a permission to construct. The government has demolished over 30 mosques in Alexandria alone last year, which caused an uproar, but whatever the government pleases to do, it does, and it couldn't care less for religion as its vision is militaristic and focused on securing its rule, while over 1100 unpermitted churches were "legalized" in 2019, and in 2021, the biggest church in the Middle East was inaugurated in The New Administrative Capital, so churches definitely aren't dead by any means. The last time a "Muslim horde" mobilized themselves to attack Christians was during the events of Al-Kosheh Village on 2 January 2000, but there is no single recorded event of a Muslim horde ever amassing themselves and attacking Christians for the building of a church in the modern times, which I also would gladly accept evidence for. None of the church bells in my street or the area around it have stopped ringing since as long as I can remember either, and the only reluctance to pray in church happens in the days following a terrorist attack on a church, of which thankfully none have occurred since 2019. The police barricades in front of the local churches around me are always there, with their perimeters secured from any vehicles. One of the two-way streets near me was blocked for any vehicle's passage since 2014 because of a church in that street, and only 2 months ago was this blocking lifted, but the barricades and the police remain close within the perimeter of the church.

    "You have sheiks and imans on live tv everyday fueling the hate against Christians." All religious and public figures on TV are selected and approved by the government, and they make sure that no such figures possess radical beliefs or points of views, anyone, whether a religious figure or not who makes hateful remarks on a certain religious group, nationality, or people has their license revoked, and is potentially detained on charges of inciting religious strife, or threatening national security/stability. This isn't only the case for public figures, but mosque imams too, all Friday speeches undergo approval by a presidential committee and all imams are ordered to follow them, anyone who fails to do is stripped of their title and banned from giving speeches in mosques. I got to see that happen with my own eyes in the mosque I pray on Friday in, when the imam gave a speech about the history of the companions of Mohammed, while the official speech was regarding morality and religious co-existence, and although he said nothing out of the ordinary, it wasn't approved by the presidency, so that was the last time I heard his voice echo within that mosque. The government has agents that attend these prayers to look for signs of opposition or radicalism, or any unofficial gatherings/discussions going on inside, you can even spot them if you're good enough, as you can clearly see what their focus is when the prayers begin.

    "Copts are so persecuted that they all have a small cross tattooed on their wrists at an early age which they have to show to prove they are real Christians in order to be able to enter Church to attend Mass." The tradition of the cross tattoo is an old Coptic tradition that started after the 7th century Islamic conquest of Egypt, it is considered a symbol of true loyalty to the faith, and a reminder of their dedication to Christ through hardships, and under constant minisculization due to the spread of the Muslim population, it is also used to identify actual Christians to gain entry into churches, although this can be faked through henna/temporary tattoos and as such personal IDs are much more efficient and fool-proof (In Egypt, religion is written on personal IDs, only if it is one of the three Abrahamic religions). The tradition continues to this day, but recently in urban communities, it started to wear out among some modernists, and although small in size, the number of people who are letting go of that tradition is slowly increasing.

    "Egypt likes to keep Copts really poor and impoverished so they don't have self-determination and seek autonomy. We're talking about at least 15 million Christians who are systematically suppressed. They are by far one of the largest ethnic groups worldwide who don't have their own autonomy. The only solution would be if the Sinai is given to the Copts so they can form their own country. As a Levantine Christian I wouldn't mind living in a Copt country, they are my brothers." 40% of the Egyptian population live on under $2 a day, majority Muslims, but include Christians as well, and conspiracy theories aside, Egypt's population growth, economy, and education have been poorly managed for centuries, these problems have only been noticed and paid attention to fairly recently, and the government is currently working on overhauling these systems, quite effectively, at least better than their handling of human rights problems. Division is a truly despised vision to have, as the true vision of all people should be unification not the segregation and autonomy of every two people that have matching moles on their foreheads. While you may think that separation is a solution to their persecution somehow, all examples of racial/ethnic/religious segregation in recent history have proven to be nothing but a failure, only working to polarize the population even more, take South Sudan for example, or Black-White segregation in the USA, the true path towards normalization is assimilation, and that is done through inter-mixing and co-existence, like it is right now, so instead of thinking as "us" and "them" we start thinking as only "we" and "us", no "Southern" us and "Northern" them either. We don't need more colors painting the population, but a canvas to fit the existing colors. Coptic Christians are your siblings in faith, but they are my siblings in nationality, blood, language, and culture, and this is how it should be, humans being brothers for nothing more or less than being human, and I appreciate your concern for your religious counterparts, but I would very much prefer if local problems were solved by local solutions, instead of everyone pitching in to give a hand, or a gun, to those they think are important to them.

    I highly recommend that you ask actual Egyptian Christians about their own affairs and their being, for they are the true subjects of the problem and they possess the greatest know-how of the matter, instead of basing your opinion around internet videos or TV, and especially as someone who lives thousands of kilometers away from Egypt and its immediate geographical neighborhood, for the situation is far more complex with a bigger back-story than the headlines can tell, as for example, this news you tell may be a 2019 happening to you, but it is in fact a 2011-born event that is going on to this day. There's no denying that Christians in Egypt are a minority, and that over the course of their presence they have faced oppression based on their creed more than any other minority group collectively. The matter of Coptic persecution should be discussed with an informed mindset, with attention to historical backgrounds or else one will find themselves succumbing to a "whitened" version of the same extremist mindset that is the cause of this problem, the same one that generates hatred between religious groups, and sparks religious warfare, which is what the Islamist terrorist groups are engaging in. Hatred isn't to be combatted with hatred, as it yields anger, and anger yields impulsively violent actions, but with the elimination of the causes, education, and advocating against radicalism.

    It can be quite hypocritical when people who claim to advocate for the rights of the persecuted Coptic Christians of Egypt on the grounds of humanitarian causes never mention nor recognize the existence of even less fortunate minorities, take the Baha'i people for instance who may not be getting bombed or shot at, but lack official recognition meaning no personal IDs are issued for them unless they decide to classify themselves under one of the three Abrahamic faiths, the only recognized faiths, as if they don't, then they receive no education, no healthcare, and no housing, and they attempted to file multiple lawsuits to no avail. The Sisi government has a secular agenda, and it claims to be working on incorporating people of all faiths, including Atheists as the president personally said during one of the Global Youth Forum conferences, but until these problems are worked on, an agenda is a mere piece of paper, and a claim to soothe the masses.
    Last edited by Bassel; 10-07-2021 at 09:29 PM.
    "Hiss" said the Sphinx in dismay looking at what Egypt has become.

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