Ancient Fennoscandian genomes reveal origin and spread of Siberian ancestry in Europe

[Östsvensk]

That is absolutely false statement. Mordovians have Turkic Mongolian ancestry.

I said that they appeared to be more like Russians who spoke a Finnic language, and not genetically like Finns.

[Harkonnen]

I said that they appeared to be more like Russians who spoke a Finnic language, and not genetically like Finns.

That is also absolutely false statement.

[Harkonnen]

That's interesting. Two of Bolshoy Oleny Ostrov samples belong to N1c1 and are straight ancestral for all N1c1 around the Baltic Sea region. We have no other ancient samples in this category, but linguists obviously deny this possibility and suggest that we will sooner or later find ancient ancestral samples for Baltic N1c1 somewhere near Volga. We really need now those Volga samples, otherwise linguists and also many geneticists will have hard times. Everyone now waits for those finds, because Volga has been a winning horse for many of us.

Problematic for your phantasies is that you can't really construct Tarandians (Iron Age Estonians, in other words Proto-Finnic) on the basis of BOO.

[Östsvensk]

That is also absolutely false statement.

That was my original statement, as far as I know. On the MDLP K27 spreadsheet, they seem to be fairly close to North Russians. But yeah, turn it around and North Russians become Mordovians who speak Russian. Does that sound better?

Russian North-Russian Estonian Finland Finn South_Finn North_Finn Mordovian

North-European Baltic 66,10 51,47 60,98 24,63 28,73 26,66 10,72 55,75
Baltic-Finnic 5,76 14,38 17,15 58,08 52,64 54,38 79,77 6,16
Uralic 1,48 9,04 1,19 2,21 1,75 2,27 0,54 7,04

[Not a Cop]

That was my original statement, as far as I know. On the MDLP K27 spreadsheet, they seem to be fairly close to North Russians. But yeah, turn it around and North Russians become Mordovians who speak Russian. Does that sound better?

Russian North-Russian Estonian Finland Finn South_Finn North_Finn Mordovian

North-European Baltic 66,10 51,47 60,98 24,63 28,73 26,66 10,72 55,75
Baltic-Finnic 5,76 14,38 17,15 58,08 52,64 54,38 79,77 6,16
Uralic 1,48 9,04 1,19 2,21 1,75 2,27 0,54 7,04

That's a strange North-Russian, here is my grandmother:

0.00% Nilotic-Omotic
1.25% Ancestral-South-Ind.
47.21% North-European-Balt.
3.76% Uralic
0.35% Australo-Melanesian
0.91% East-Siberian
0.39% Ancestral-Yayoi
6.43% Caucasian-Near-East.
0.00% Tibeto-Burman
0.16% Austronesian
0.01% Central-African-Pygm
0.00% Central-African-HG
0.00% Nilo-Saharian
0.52% North-African
3.43% Gedrosia-Caucasian
1.29% Cushitic
0.32% Congo-Pygmean
0.00% Bushmen
0.45% South-Meso-Amerind.
8.97% South-West-European
0.00% North-Amerindian
0.01% Arabic
0.81% North-Circumpolar
1.70% Kalash
0.00% Papuan-Australian
22.02% Baltic-Finnic
0.00% Bantu

[Harkonnen]

That was my original statement, as far as I know. On the MDLP K27 spreadsheet, they seem to be fairly close to North Russians. But yeah, turn it around and North Russians become Mordovians who speak Russian. Does that sound better?

Russian North-Russian Estonian Finland Finn South_Finn North_Finn Mordovian

North-European Baltic 66,10 51,47 60,98 24,63 28,73 26,66 10,72 55,75
Baltic-Finnic 5,76 14,38 17,15 58,08 52,64 54,38 79,77 6,16
Uralic 1,48 9,04 1,19 2,21 1,75 2,27 0,54 7,04

Yes in that run Mordovians do indeed get very little of that Finnish component, which in my view, after careful examination of several different types of methods of ancestry estimation, does reflect some sort of racial reality. In other words it does not seem likely that the majority North European ancestry in Mordovians is closely related to Finnish type of North European ancestry.

[Lemminkäinen]

That is absolutely false statement. Mordovians have Turkic Mongolian ancestry.

The Asian part can be Mongolian, but around 90% of their ancestry is very similar with Northern Russians.

[Lemminkäinen]

Problematic for your phantasies is that you can't really construct Tarandians (Iron Age Estonians, in other words Proto-Finnic) on the basis of BOO.

I neither need to do it, because I don't know who are Tarandians. I know an Iron Age burial custom named Tarand graves though (In Estonia, Finland and Sweden. The fact is that BOO samples are ancestral for all Baltic N1c1. Samples from Tarand graves hold only downstream mutation of BOO samples. I can wait until Volga Kama genes are connected to Estonians and before that I need to say really nothing.

[Ymyyakhtakh]

In Jeong et al. 2019 (The genetic history of admixture across inner Eurasia), the Mongoloid ancestry of Tatars (other than Zabolotniye Tatars, who are Tatarified Khanty/Mansi/Nenets) was modeled as Ulchi (Tungusic), but Mordvins and other Uralics were modeled as Nganasan.

For the forest-tundra population to the west of the Urals, Nganasan + Srubnaya + WHG + LBK_EN and its submodel provide a good fit, while additional ANE-related contribution (AG3) is required for those to the east of the Urals (Enets, Selkups, Kets and Mansi). For the steppe-forest populations, Srubnaya + Ulchi, Srubnaya + Ulchi + AG3 and Srubnaya + Nganasan provide a good fit. For each target population, we present the simplest best fitting model, that is, the one with the smallest number of references and with the biggest P value. The 5 cM jackknifing standard errors are marked by horizontal bars. Details of the model information are presented in Supplementary Tables 5 and 8. *P = 0.01–0.05; **P < 0.01.

[Lemminkäinen]

That's a strange North-Russian, here is my grandmother:

0.00% Nilotic-Omotic
1.25% Ancestral-South-Ind.
47.21% North-European-Balt.
3.76% Uralic
0.35% Australo-Melanesian
0.91% East-Siberian
0.39% Ancestral-Yayoi
6.43% Caucasian-Near-East.
0.00% Tibeto-Burman
0.16% Austronesian
0.01% Central-African-Pygm
0.00% Central-African-HG
0.00% Nilo-Saharian
0.52% North-African
3.43% Gedrosia-Caucasian
1.29% Cushitic
0.32% Congo-Pygmean
0.00% Bushmen
0.45% South-Meso-Amerind.
8.97% South-West-European
0.00% North-Amerindian
0.01% Arabic
0.81% North-Circumpolar
1.70% Kalash
0.00% Papuan-Australian
22.02% Baltic-Finnic
0.00% Bantu

Mordvas have only 15% N1 and 36% R1a and 11% R1b, North Russians are very similar. These numbers are based on academic samples. Karelian, Vepsian and Ingrian ancestries are common in Northwest Russia, from St Petersnurg to Lake Onega, but North Russian academic samples are near Vologda and from other areas where people have not spoken Finnic language during known history.