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Thread: Was Wielbark Culture (east Germans mixing w/ Slavs) responsible for Nordic phenotype in slavs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lei.talk View Post
    ..
    I will cease to use the term long-skulled then
    Which phenotypes would be brachycephalic + leptoprosopic
    or dolichocephalic + euryprosopic ?

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    delete

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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    Probably. We already have R1a there, and there are rumours of R1b-P312 too. We might find out in 2020.
    We could always use the fits on nmonte (although D-stats is always more reliable) to see whether Stredny stog is a good fit in comparison to Yamnaya_Samara or Kalmykia and in many ways it is. But basing on current evidence, I don't see how Yamnaya could be the source of steppe ancestry in Northern Europeans when you have Corded ware samples being modelled as Ukraine_Eneolithic + TRB/GAC with a greater fit than Yamnaya_Samara+TRB+ minor CTP (in this scenario, Balkan farmers could have influenced Yamnya around 13%), and bear in mind that the Rhineish Bell Beakers are descendants of the CWC. The influence of Cucuteni–Trypillia on Yamnaya is evident of its age, that is located on the time-frame of middle-late IE culture so they must had admixture coming in from west. It just could be that the farmer is GAC judging by its whg to Barcin_N ratio, which explains why yamnaya was compatible as model for CWC steppe ancestry. Stredny Stog had stronger affinity for Ukraine_Eneolithic than does Yamnaya I believe. Also compare Modern Northern Europeans with Yamnaya_Kalmykia and with Ukraine_Eneolithic and look the fits:

    Sredny Stog:

    "distance%=3.7347"

    Norwegian

    Ukraine_Eneolithic,73.8
    Sweden_TRB,26.2

    "distance%=4.1004"

    Icelandic

    Ukraine_Eneolithic,74.2
    Sweden_TRB,25.8

    "distance%=7.1512"

    Lithuanian

    Ukraine_Eneolithic,67.6
    Narva_Lithuania,21.4
    Poland_GAC,11

    "distance%=6.5393"




    Belarusian

    Ukraine_Eneolithic,63.8
    Narva_Lithuania,17.4
    Poland_GAC,12.2
    Maykop,6.6


    Compared that with Yamnaya

    Spoiler!
    "distance%=4.1296"

    Norwegian

    Yamnaya_Kalmykia,52
    Sweden_TRB,48

    "distance%=4.4568"

    Icelandic

    Yamnaya_Kalmykia,52.4
    Sweden_TRB,47.6

    "distance%=6.8961"

    Belarusian

    Yamnaya_Kalmykia,48.2
    Poland_GAC,35.2
    Narva_Lithuania,14.6
    Maykop,2

    "distance%=7.5743"

    Lithuanian

    Yamnaya_Kalmykia,47.6
    Poland_GAC,32.2
    Narva_Lithuania,20.2


    Thus in this hypothetical Senario, EHG form a Ukraine_eneolithic_outlier I6561 like population leaves the western steppe zone in the Ukraine proper and head out west to form Khvalynsk, Repin, Sredny Stog, Dnieper-Donets culture where there is an incremental increase in CHG from teal source but the steppe population is still heavy in Ukraine_Eneolithic. This hypothetical steppe population migrates west in form CWC but one offshoot of this hypothetical population reaches the North Caucasus Piedmont absorbs more Caucasus related ancestry (so Yamnya = Ukraine_eneolithic_outlier I6561+North Caucasus eneolithic which is EHG+CHG+CHG) and moves to the current location where the Yamnaya sample were found. This hypothesis neatly explains why phenotype based SNP for Yamnya was darker than modern N. Europeans, and considering that it is unlikely that the Globular Amphora Farmers were not the source for light pigmentation,eyes and hair and it must have arrived with EHG rich CWC. This hypotheisis neatly explains why CWC R1a fits with streadny stog y-DNA profile.

    But a good hypothesis must be falsifiable. The counter argument is that the steppe population carrying the R1a-M417 could a population similar to yamnaya but is not yamnaya or stredny stog, we just currently the lack the aDNA samples for that population.

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