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Why do you think our universe is fine tuned? What made it so elegant? - Page 2

View Poll Results: Why do you think universe is fine tuned? What made is so elegant?

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  • There is some sort of cosmic mind out there/ God

    12 70.59%
  • Multiverse did it/ quantum magic

    0 0%
  • Cyclic model proposed by Roger Penrose

    2 11.76%
  • Simulation theory

    1 5.88%
  • Pure accident

    2 11.76%
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Thread: Why do you think our universe is fine tuned? What made it so elegant?

  1. #11
    Veteran Member The Lawspeaker's Avatar
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    God. Good and simple.



  2. #12
    Veteran Member Methuselah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesBond007 View Post
    That is a dumb explanation. It is more likely that no matter how improbable such a fine tuned universe is -- that we would not exist without it and out so it has to exist that way.
    Your explanation is no better. You assume that something super elegant must exist so we can observe it (so we must exist in order to observe but you are not explaining our existence). Not really. That could maybe possibly explain life but not the universe itself, unless you believe we are part of the multiverse. Then you can say there is a right spot or a right ball in the lottery machine and we just happened to be that ball. But that requires belief in the multiverse and is not observable. We don't know if we are part of the multiverse or eternal cyclical universe rearranging itself. If we are not part of the multiverse i see God as the only proper solution to the fine tuning problem. Or some God like super epic thing yet unknown.
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesBond007 View Post
    Video unavailable
    This video contains content from PBS, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
    Working well in Finland. Thank you for letting me know, i might change the video then. Shame on you PBS!

    Maybe opening the video in a new tab could help to solve the issue.
    Last edited by Methuselah; 12-24-2019 at 08:26 PM.

  3. #13
    Veteran Member Methuselah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    God. Good and simple.
    This take goes well with modern science, ironically. Our universe is the only observable universe and it looks like it has a beginning. Now people can bash you and ask to prove God now but this universe as the only observable universe could be your evidence.
    Last edited by Methuselah; 12-24-2019 at 08:25 PM.

  4. #14
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    I can’t choose between simulation theory and multiverse, they seem both highly probable to me.

  5. #15
    Veteran Member Methuselah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakha View Post
    I can’t choose between simulation theory and multiverse, they seem both highly probable to me.
    Simulation theories kinda push the whole thing further, just like all of these answers do. But this one particularly does, since we have to think about people (or aliens) who created us and their origin. How their universe happened? If their universe is part of the multiverse then it would just fall under the multiverse train etc. Also, it seems very hard to have such computers with such a capacity (memory) to produce the whole thing.

  6. #16
    Veteran Judicator Apricity Funding Member
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    Aldaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlm View Post
    Scroll to 3:10. Video itself is about universe being fine tuned, not only for life but for planets to form etc. This is a well known fact these days. Life being fine- tuned to fit the universe itself is a product of a fine tuned universe. That is a bit different subject to be honest, since for life to be fine- tuned to adopt you need life first...


    Anyway, if you don't believe in some sort of Cosmic Mind, then multiverse would be your best friend. Leonard touches this subject on 9:50.
    Physical constants are not a product of a random variable function, so the probability theory isn't applicable in here at all. That approach assumes some sort of universe creating machine filling the blanks with random numbers in the first place, but the real deal doesn't work like that, for all we know. And the universe being overwhelmingly a void with an occasional black hole is an evidence against an 'universal mind', if anything.

  7. #17
    Veteran Member Methuselah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldaris View Post
    Physical constants are not a product of a random variable function, so the probability theory isn't applicable in here at all. That approach assumes some sort of universe creating machine filling the blanks with random numbers in the first place, but the real deal doesn't work like that, for all we know. And the universe being overwhelmingly a void with an occasional black hole is an evidence against an 'universal mind', if anything.
    Interesting. Your first sentence could be used as an argument for a Creator. If the laws of physics are not random what are they? If they are part of the bigger picture why are they the way they are (and the way they are is a very good way). Now some could have argued laws of physics are tied to the cosmos, but the cosmos hasn't been eternal since Einstein's theory of relativity took it's place. The only way to fake eternal and static cosmos is to try to get there with cycles just like Roger Penrose is doing. In this case you don't need a beginning and to worry about laws of physics because constants are tied to whatever the heck and are variable just like in multiverse theories. But you said they are not a product of random stuff, which is interesting if you are a non theist. Because you have no explanation for laws now. Or you think our universe with the laws of physics is just a product of randomness? What did you mean when you said real deal won't work like that by the way? You mean it's too vague and unpleasant explanation (and it obviously is)?

    Hmm. I don't think that's a clear evidence against creation, universe being huge. It's not void but seems to be full of dark matter and dark energy. Also it's expanding. [1] It seems we need all of that because we need inflation type of mechanism to make it long lasting. This requires expanding universe since the static one is not possible. So for us to be here and all the things to function right we really need such a huge universe. Also, if a Creator wants only us, wouldn't it be mostly void?

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accele...f_the_universe

  8. #18
    Veteran Member Methuselah's Avatar
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    ...

  9. #19
    55 Annihilus's Avatar
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    Simulation or god is just shifting the problem

  10. #20
    Veteran Member Adamm's Avatar
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    God.

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