Why/how were Early Neolithic Farmers cucked by WHG?

[Dick]

Have there been any funnelbeaker samples found belonging to I1 yet?.

Davidski mentioned it in his blog in the past. Here’s an I1 Ancient Samples Map that Deadly77 put together on Google Maps from anthrogenica.

Link to the Google map is here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...4350000038&z=3

[Daco Celtic]

Why is WHG admixture so small in Europeans today compared to EEF if they were cucked? I think there is more to this story than Y-DNA. WHGs are so fucking overrated.

[Grace O'Malley]

Why is WHG admixture so small in Europeans today compared to EEF if they were cucked? I think there is more to this story than Y-DNA. WHGs are so fucking overrated.

It is because the ydna I types got the Farmer women. Ydna doesn't always correspond to admixture though. It is obvious that in the past some of the men had a lot of women so many descendants born with a certain ydna. You can see this in any population if you look at the diversity of mtdna in comparison to ydna. Then many of the I types were overridden by R1b types. The winner gets the spoils I guess.

[Daco Celtic]

It is because the ydna I types got the Farmer women. Ydna doesn't always correspond to admixture though. It is obvious that in the past some of the men had a lot of women so many descendants born with a certain ydna. You can see this in any population if you look at the diversity of mtdna in comparison to ydna. Then many of the I types were overridden by R1b types. The winner gets the spoils I guess.

Ok but if WHGs were successful they would have more admixture modern day Europeans. I think they were actually quite unsuccessful and were out bred by EFF (those that didn't mix with farmers). I think their backwards way of life was no match for the more sophisticated farmer.

[Grace O'Malley]

Ok but if WHGs were successful they would have more admixture modern day Europeans. I think they were actually quite unsuccessful and were out bred by EFF (those that didn't mix with farmers). I think their backwards way of life was no match for the more sophisticated farmer.

It is amazing though that all the Farmer groups in places like Britain and Ireland so far have been 12a. It's most likely not the case in other parts of Europe.

Around 4000 BCE, Neolithic farming communities reached the northwestern fringes of Europe, including the British Isles (14, 15) and Scandinavia (1, 2, 16, 17). A marked hunter-gatherer (HG) admixture has been observed in the later farmer groups compared with the Early Neolithic farmers on the continent (2, 10, 12).

We found greater macrohaplogroup mtDNA diversity than Y-chromosomal (YDNA) diversity. Whereas mtDNA lineages from megalith burials harbor haplogroups K, H, HV, V, U5b, T, and J (among others), males from megalith burials belong almost exclusively to YDNA haplogroup I, more specifically to the I2a sublineage, which has a time to most recent common ancestor of ∼15000 BCE (51).

Males from the present study belonged to YDNA haplogroup I, and those who could be resolved beyond this level were characterized as belonging to the I2a2a or I2a1b branch. Four of the 10 Primrose/Carrowmore males (Primrose 9, 12, 13, and 16) could be further resolved to the former sublineage, while the two Scottish males and the four Ansarve males could be further placed in the latter branch (Table 1 and SI Appendix, section S7).

The high frequency of the HG-derived I2a male lineages among megalith as well as nonmegalith individuals (SI Appendix, section S11.6) suggests a male sex-biased admixture process between the farmer and the HG groups (2, 12, 53, 54), but when this admixture occurred is unclear.

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/19/9469

[Daco Celtic]

It is amazing though that all the Farmer groups in places like Britain and Ireland so far have been 12a. It's most likely not the case in other parts of Europe.

Around 4000 BCE, Neolithic farming communities reached the northwestern fringes of Europe, including the British Isles (14, 15) and Scandinavia (1, 2, 16, 17). A marked hunter-gatherer (HG) admixture has been observed in the later farmer groups compared with the Early Neolithic farmers on the continent (2, 10, 12).

We found greater macrohaplogroup mtDNA diversity than Y-chromosomal (YDNA) diversity. Whereas mtDNA lineages from megalith burials harbor haplogroups K, H, HV, V, U5b, T, and J (among others), males from megalith burials belong almost exclusively to YDNA haplogroup I, more specifically to the I2a sublineage, which has a time to most recent common ancestor of ∼15000 BCE (51).

Males from the present study belonged to YDNA haplogroup I, and those who could be resolved beyond this level were characterized as belonging to the I2a2a or I2a1b branch. Four of the 10 Primrose/Carrowmore males (Primrose 9, 12, 13, and 16) could be further resolved to the former sublineage, while the two Scottish males and the four Ansarve males could be further placed in the latter branch (Table 1 and SI Appendix, section S7).

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/19/9469

Yes, I don't doubt the success of I2a in Northern Europe but I suspect they benefited from the fact that northern Europe was sparsely populated and didn't have larger farmer communities like in points to the south.

[Grace O'Malley]

Yes, I don't doubt the success of I2a in Northern Europe but I suspect they benefited from the fact that northern Europe was sparsely populated and didn't have larger farmer communities like in points to the south.

Yes I agree. Not being a male I'm not being a rooster about this. I just find it interesting that the farmers in the North had a HG ydna.

[Daco Celtic]

Yes I agree. Not being a male I'm not being a rooster about this. I just find it interesting that the farmers in the North had a HG ydna.

I'm just an advocate for the rights of neolithic farmer women in the British Isles. I hate to see them defiled. I'm a softie like that.

[vbnetkhio]

Davidski mentioned it in his blog in the past. Here’s an I1 Ancient Samples Map that Deadly77 put together on Google Maps from anthrogenica.

Link to the Google map is here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...4350000038&z=3

it doesn't work

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm just an advocate for the rights of neolithic farmer women in the British Isles. I hate to see them defiled. I'm a softie like that.

I tend to be a bit detached but I'm glad I live in this day and not the past. I don't think it was good for either sex.