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Thread: The stupidity of the "Mediterranean" label for phenotypes.

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    There is indeed much confusion about this. Most European Meds (whether in the South or elsewhere) have other, more pan-European elements mixed in: Atlantid, Dinarid, Alpine, even Nordic at times. Only a minority of Southern Europeans and hardly any Northern Europeans have more 'pure' Med phenotypes: Gracile Meds, East Meds etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    There is indeed much confusion about this. Most European Meds (whether in the South or elsewhere) have other, more pan-European elements mixed in: Atlantid, Dinarid, Alpine, even Nordic at times. Only a minority of Southern Europeans and hardly any Northern Europeans have more 'pure' Med phenotypes: Gracile Meds, East Meds etc.
    Right, I am northern European with significant atlanto-med and a minor dinarid strain but I also have upper Paleolithic and Nordic elements but there is nothing gracile about me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gota_type_ View Post
    It is extremely stupid to consider southern Europeans as "Med" people as a group, like those in northern Africa or like many arabs. We obviously know that the differences are massive between south-europeans and north-africans, so I wonder who the hell invented the "Med" label and who the hell have put south Europeans (or many other from other parts of Europe) as "Meds"??

    The differences are so huge that the term can´t be used unless someone is stupid. For example, this picture (5 Spaniards and an arab). I could have posted north-africans or any other "mediterranean " group. I know that north-africans or arabs are more semitic, even they have subsaharan and so on, but they are considered (and they consider themshelves) as a Med group. Can you spot the brutal differences??

    So, after seeing this picture, how is that "Med" label still working? There is more closeness between an alpine (other classification label) and a euro-"med" than between meds from northern Africa and euro-"med". So, how is it that some people want to label the north-african and the south-europeans as meds?? I guess south-Europeans are no mediterranean in a phenotype level, so let´s stop using this stupid label. Only a 3-4% south Europeans are somehow similar to those from north-africa. Those like Raul or Busquets (which I don´t consider them white and I am from the same country than them). But, these types are only 3-4-5% of the population of south-Europe. The great majority look like the people in the picture (and no, I don´t look med at all, in fact, quite the contrary but I hate that "med" label since it is too stupid to be considered from a rational point of view.

    They are considered med for their geography and their dark phenotype (not as much as that of North Africans but more so than that of the central European and obviously North Europeans)
    North Africans are Mediterranean Semitics and Southern Europeans are Mediterranean Europeans
    The European non-Mediterranean standards are the European centers (Swiss, French from the center / north, Germans, Austrians etc)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    I think for the first time I agree with you, this map is not 100% accurate but very close to reality.
    Quebec should be a little more marked.

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    damn. so we wuzn't medz n sheeeit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggery View Post
    They are considered med for their geography and their dark phenotype (not as much as that of North Africans but more so than that of the central European and obviously North Europeans)
    North Africans are Mediterranean Semitics and Southern Europeans are Mediterranean Europeans
    The European non-Mediterranean standards are the European centers (Swiss, French from the center / north, Germans, Austrians etc)
    Southern Europeans are much closer in pigmentation to other Europeans than to the Northern Africans and middle easterner average.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alnortedelsur View Post
    Southern Europeans are much closer in pigmentation to other Europeans than to the Northern Africans and middle easterner average.
    Yes and no. If you mean closer to all other Europeans (even Finns) than to Gulf Arabs, Egyptians and heavily SSA-admixed North Africans, than yes you're right. However, I'd strongly contest the idea that Southern Europeans look closer to Scandinavians than to Caucasus people, Turks and even some Levantines (principally Lebanese and Syrians, who in many cases are not actually that dark and stereotypically Arab-looking).

    N.B. Even if it is true that Sikeliot used to really exaggerate the 'whiteness' of Levantines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alnortedelsur View Post
    Southern Europeans are much closer in pigmentation to other Europeans than to the Northern Africans and middle easterner average.
    Well, it is obvious that yes, what I wanted to say is that the med element in southern Europe is greater than in central and northern Europe, the OP says that the term med encloses North Africans with Europeans south (which I disagree) why Med is used mainly with euros.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Germany should be marked as well, Bach, Beethoven, Goethe and more had strong Med elements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantid View Post
    Germany should be marked as well, Bach, Beethoven, Goethe and more had strong Med elements.
    Indeed, while Germans are certainly blonder and more Nordic than Brits as a whole, their darker types to me look often more truly Med than most dark Brits do.

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