Ulster-Scots - a people and a language

[Grace O'Malley]

This is an old comment, but it deserves recognition. Mingle is absolutely right about the western Scottish Lowlands, which have both Briton input and Gaelic input, a double dose of Celtic. The eastern Scottish Lowlands have more Anglo-Saxon input.

My "anthropological pet peeve" is when perfect strangers, from foreign countries, tell people with Appalachian roots that they're really Scottish instead of Irish as if that common knowledge and conventional wisdom holds true for all people in that region. I descend from Native Irish (not just Ulster Scottish), and I'm talking about people with stereotypical Irish surnames from the South. My last immigrant ancestor was an Irishman who came here in 1825(?). None of my great-grandparents were 100% Scots-Irish, so there's a bit of false romanticism in much of this.

I did read something about this a few months ago. Would have to research more but there were Irish Catholics that changed religion in the US as well. It was something about most of the Americans that claim Irish descent were in fact Protestants and not Catholic. I will look into it more when I have time.

One of the Genetic Groups from My Heritage was from the US South. See below.

Ireland
Ireland (Tipperary, Limerick and Dublin) and England
Ireland and Northern Ireland
USA (New York City, Philadelphia, Boston and Chicago) and Australia
England
UK and Ireland
Eastern and Midwestern USA
Southern USA

It is my only low confidence GG however.

About this Genetic Group:
British and some Irish and German settlers in Southern United States
DNA kits used to form this group: 75,156
DNA kits linked to family trees: 31,353
Confidence level: Low

[Grace O'Malley]

Forum posted twice.

Another interesting thing is that whether people are Ulster Scots or Native Irish they are very similar genetically. That might cause some conniptions for some of the earlier posters but hopefully they have mellowed with knowledge and time.

[Ayetooey]

I did read something about this a few months ago. Would have to research more but there were Irish Catholics that changed religion in the US as well. It was something about most of the Americans that claim Irish descent were in fact Protestants and not Catholic. I will look into it more when I have time.

One of the Genetic Groups from My Heritage was from the US South. See below.

Ireland
Ireland (Tipperary, Limerick and Dublin) and England
Ireland and Northern Ireland
USA (New York City, Philadelphia, Boston and Chicago) and Australia
England
UK and Ireland
Eastern and Midwestern USA
Southern USA

Probably a lot of the Protestant Irish Americans are 75% British or some other Protestant group from the colonial era, but have an Irish grandparent or something which is a more recent migrant so put themselves down as Irish. Seems a common occurrence with German Americans, almost every German American result I've seen is heavily or even majority British. There is only 4 million Irish in Ireland but over 30 million supposed Irish Americans, doesn't really add up mathematically for them to all be pure bred.

[Grace O'Malley]

Probably a lot of the Protestant Irish Americans are 75% British or some other Protestant group from the colonial era, but have an Irish grandparent or something which is a more recent migrant so put themselves down as Irish. Seems a common occurrence with German Americans, almost every German American result I've seen is heavily or even majority British. There is only 4 million Irish in Ireland but over 30 million supposed Irish Americans, doesn't really add up mathematically for them to all be pure bred.

Possibly. I'll have to look again but it did mention about Irish changing their religion as well. This also happened in Ulster which is why you have Protestant O'Neill's and Catholic Adams.

[JamesBond007]

Probably a lot of the Protestant Irish Americans are 75% British or some other Protestant group from the colonial era, but have an Irish grandparent or something which is a more recent migrant so put themselves down as Irish. Seems a common occurrence with German Americans, almost every German American result I've seen is heavily or even majority British. There is only 4 million Irish in Ireland but over 30 million supposed Irish Americans, doesn't really add up mathematically for them to all be pure bred.

Very true I am Protestant but I was born in New York USA. I used to think I was Ulster Irish. I have an Irish hiberno-norman name.

Apparently, I am Ulster-Scots, English, German and Irish but the German, English, and Norse blood (from the Scots) was so strong my autosomal DNA is more English/Dutch.

[Anglo-Celtic]

I did read something about this a few months ago. Would have to research more but there were Irish Catholics that changed religion in the US as well. It was something about most of the Americans that claim Irish descent were in fact Protestants and not Catholic. I will look into it more when I have time.

One of the Genetic Groups from My Heritage was from the US South. See below.

Ireland
Ireland (Tipperary, Limerick and Dublin) and England
Ireland and Northern Ireland
USA (New York City, Philadelphia, Boston and Chicago) and Australia
England
UK and Ireland
Eastern and Midwestern USA
Southern USA

I looked at various genetic tests, and they're quite different from one another. You'll see one person with a relatively high amount of Irish blood, and you'll then see a second person with a relatively low amount of Irish blood. It's almost like there are peculiar marriage patterns within certain lines. You might see a German version of this too.

Whether or not Appalachians are of Ulster-Scottish or Native Irish descent, they tend to hold the Irish people in high regard. They definitely want no part of sectarian problems, and some people try to hijack them in this regard. They obviously forget that their forebears were instrumental in gaining independence from the British. I've heard some of them wish for a united Ireland too.

[Grace O'Malley]

I looked at various genetic tests, and they're quite different from one another. You'll see one person with a relatively high amount of Irish blood, and you'll then see a second person with a relatively low amount of Irish blood. It's almost like there are peculiar marriage patterns within certain lines. You might see a German version of this too.

Whether or not Appalachians are of Ulster-Scottish or Native Irish descent, they tend to hold the Irish people in high regard. They definitely want no part of sectarian problems, and some people try to hijack them in this regard. They obviously forget that their forebears were instrumental in gaining independence from the British. I've heard some of them wish for a united Ireland too.

Yes I know Appalachians have a lot of respect for the Irish and many claim Irish ancestry. I loved this from Dolly Parton when she was in Co Kerry. She is so down to earth and natural and I think the Irish would love her even more for this.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Probably a lot of the Protestant Irish Americans are 75% British or some other Protestant group from the colonial era, but have an Irish grandparent or something which is a more recent migrant so put themselves down as Irish. Seems a common occurrence with German Americans, almost every German American result I've seen is heavily or even majority British. There is only 4 million Irish in Ireland but over 30 million supposed Irish Americans, doesn't really add up mathematically for them to all be pure bred.

That could be true in many cases. My forebear, from County Tipperary, became a Baptist preacher. He was more Protestant than the Presbyterians. I have two or more ancestors who converted from Catholicism to Protestantism when they still were in Ireland.

One was a gallowglass who moved to Delaware. A second was a man, from County Laois, who was estranged from his father because he left the Church. A third came from a line that was evidently forced to County Mayo by Cromwell. He and others started one of the first Churches of Christ.

[JamesBond007]

That could be true in many cases. My forebear, from County Tipperary, became a Baptist preacher. He was more Protestant than the Presbyterians. I have two or more ancestors who converted from Catholicism to Protestantism when they still were in Ireland.

One was a gallowglass who moved to Delaware. A second was a man, from County Laois, who was estranged from his father because he left the Church. A third came from a line that was evidently forced to County Mayo by Cromwell. He and others started one of the first Churches of Christ.

Alot Americans are German/Irish or neo-Anglo-Saxon e.g. Irish/German/English etc... only a minority of Americans are Catholic mixes like Irish/Italian (pseudo-french) and they are concentrated in places like New York.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Forum posted twice.

Another interesting thing is that whether people are Ulster Scots or Native Irish they are very similar genetically. That might cause some conniptions for some of the earlier posters but hopefully they have mellowed with knowledge and time.

That's a great point. One of the most absurd and bizarre comments, that I've ever read, came from a man who bragged that he didn't have a drop of Gaelic blood, and he had a Gaelic surname that started with "Mc". This was hundreds of years ago, but it speaks to your observation. "I'm proud to say that I don't have a drop of German hun blood." - Hans Schmidt 1850

It stands to reason that they share genes with each other. Just look at how close they are to each other. It's just common sense that there was trade and travel for years before even Dalriada came to be. That makes the former troubles even that much more tragic.