Reviving Prussia: should Slavs (Poles, Russians) return stolen German lands?

[Nordarya]

John Fitzgerald Kennedy's parents were Scottish and Norman, lol.

England is still set to reunite with Norway, through the line of the Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark (Queen Elizabeth II's husband), who is a male cousin of the Duke of Cumberland, Prince George of Denmark and Norway (Queen Anne's husband). England flipped the lines of Normandy and Anjou, over to Hanover and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, reclaiming Nordic roots once Queen Victoria's son Edward VII wed Alexandra, Princess of Denmark, amidst the Prussian annexations of Hanover and Schleswig-Holstein, shutting England out of Germany by establishing a puppet state of Saxony.

The cause of WWI. Sarajevo was just a straw that broke the camel's back.

Do I believe that Prussia should be restored ? No. Prussia has been the bane of Germany's existence. Every time an Austrian (because the latter, although Catholic, suffered from similar mental issues) or a Prussian was at the helm was of the German state, Germany got dragged off to another war to be a slaughtered or saw themselves weakened in some other way (let's not forget that Merkel, while not a Prussian, is still an Ossi and East Germany retained many of Prussia's ideas and just dressed them in socialist rhetoric while the West, clearly somewhat wiser, at first tried to get rid of that train of thinking (only, unfortunately, to experiment with it again and you can see the results today in Merkel's Germany). Prussianism is tyranny and it would be good for the Germans if they removed that legacy from within their midst. It's pure poison.

Preußen muß sterben, damit Deutschland lebe !

Germanic Saxony, whether Welf or Wettin, should be the heart of Germany, not quasi-Celtic Bavaria or quasi-Balto-Slavic Prussia.

You are a Troll. Or a religious biggot who prefers Poles or Czech over Prussians.
Who can pretend a nation would not care the lands it loses?

England holds the ropes of old Europe, when they shall pull them who knows how it will end.

England wants nothing to do with Europe except free association with Germanic countries for trade and cultural ties.

And before people start talking about the "Prussian virtues" - they aren't so "Prussian" at all: the Prussian monarchs merely took them from Luther and changed them to suit their own needs. They are Lutheran virtues - German virtues and people should actually start calling them that and they are no different from the other Protestant virtues even Northern and Western European Catholics have made their own.

Protestant Prussia vs Catholic Austria...I refuse to take sides about either "moral superiority". I would have preferred apolitical Mennonite or Amish ideal about a free land for bauers and no theocratic warmongering.

^ And you haven't wondered why they would have been fighting against Prussia ? One should feel sorry for any German patriot that took up his gun to fight France during the Liberation Wars, hoping they would be a free people, guided by the same Liberal values (the values of the French Revolution at the time), only to be kicked back into the mould by the Prussian rulers after the war was over.


Habsburgs. Those proved to be the other bane of Germany's existence. Look up the European Wars of Religion - those people to blow up the whole of Europe with their obstinacy. The only difference between the Habsburgs and the rulers of Prussia proved to be their religion and the time in which they were buttfucking their own countries along with the rest of Europe.

This is why the Nassau, Welf and Oldenburg families should have ruled Deutschland, so it's too bad Richard of Cornwall didn't win the Imperial Crown in addition to the Kingly one, because it would have been to everyone's advantage in the present time, even if it was Plantagenets instead of the Hohenstaufen, Luxemburg, Habsburg and Hohenzollern dynasties.

^And the Habsburgs were no different from the Prussians and the Prussians were no different from the Habsburgs.

Same with their Christian Crusader mentality about Ostsiedlung. They're equally German colonies and equally deserve life or death on the same terms.

Teutone, if not a Troll, is an envious Austrian who tries to give bad reputation of Prussians.
That is dishonoring for any people to tell "we are brothers with they who stole our lands and deported our people".

It is like you tell that you are proud to be a cuck.

Anyway. US and UK are two Protestant giant nations and if Prussia shall be restored, that will depend on them.

Look, a peaceful Axis of Berlin and Vienna, Alliance of London and Washington, is just fine.

LOLOLOL

Your Hohenzollern love Austrians and during the 20th century were allied with Habsburg. Our brotherhood with them made us join their war 1914 and during 3.Reich they decided to unite with us.

They were pan-Germanists.

I am not Austrian I am East Prussian you newfag.

It's too bad there's no true universal Germanic feeling.

Only because we haven't united yet and for that we have those American-paid anti-EU groups to thank. I can criticise the EU for a lot of things but in this case they are right on the money.

Americans don't want to pay for NATO and yet side with Britons about Europe. There's no cognitive dissonance.

Their only problems during the 18th and 19th century laid in who was doing the uniting.

Prussians and Austrians ruling Germany would be like Unionists and Confederates ruling Britain.

I disagree with some aspects of Bismarck but at the end he revived the German idea and indirectly and unwillingly boosted pan-Germanism in Austria and Germany.

Alot of historical figures have good and bad sides, but I focus on his positive sides.

Unfortunately, Germany, including Prussia and Austria, are too integrated with Roman visions and not NW-minded like Teutons outside their empires.

Actually, you fool, Germany's economic and cultural heart is not in the East but in the West. Along the Ruhr and the Rhine. The cities along the North and Baltic Sea have also always been important. (I, for one, still think that moving the capital back to "Prussian" Berlin was a foolhardy undertaking). Bonn was just fine.

You know you wanted to write Aachen, don't lie. I prefer Hedeby.

(Plus: if there is anything that the post-1945 world has shown us, is that Germany's true calling is in the West. Not in the East. Having an Ostpolitik of any sort is not really working out so well.). In other words: let the East for what it is but keep up a good Westpolitik a la Adenauer and Brandt (but without the NATO component).

Erasing Ostpolitik requires reclamation of Österreich for Ostmark and this would balance Bavarian needs for lebensraum, with a Dutch-Deutsch bilateralism instead.

And you were bitching about Teutone making Germany seem more like France etc than Scandinavia. Allow me to let you in on a little secret: shhh ! That's because it is. Don't tell anyone though. Only infrastructure wise, they are more like Belgium atm. LOL.

Well, Lothringen is always going to be dubious.

Their economy is geared towards Western Europe. Their main industrial zone along the Rhine and Ruhr matches the one along the Meuse in Belgium going down to the one in Northern France and they rely on the port of Rotterdam in the Netherlands. Their economic heart is part of the Blue Banana - not some area around Gothenburg), their cultural heart is also along the Rhine (and has always been there). They are a Western European country that should never have identified themselves as Central European because they aren't. Only parts of the areas in the East resemble Central Europe in any conceivable way: the East of Brandenburg, the Sorbian areas and the areas adjacent to the Czech border in Bavaria. The far North resembles Denmark more in landscape and overall mentality. The North-West is more like the Netherlands (also Western Europe).

Germany and the Netherlands should withdraw from Europe and revive the Hanse, as Lübeck is currently working on.

I am Catholic, you fool. And the Dutch sailed around the world because the Portuguese had stupidly, under orders of the King of Spain, closed down their ports to the Dutch so our boys went to look for the source, Had the Portuguese not done this, it is unlikely they would ever have gone to Indonesia.

We can't expect a stupid, uneducated, barely literate Turk like yourself to understand the intricacies of European politics. Just to make you understand the realities of this country alone: the South (my home turf) is more focussed on France, Belgium, the German Rhineland and the Continent and were mostly "liberated" by Holland during the Eighty Years War (something the Hollanders reminded them off for the next 250 years by keeping them poor and treating them as an internal colony), the East (mainly Protestant but Catholic in Twente) focuses more on Germany and, for much of the 17th century, could barely make their mind up on whether they wanted anything to do with the rest of the Dutch Republic or on whether to join/remain in the HRE, the North focuses more on itself and is Protestant and very provincial with a traditional reliance on smaller scale overseas trade and the West looks overseas but also relies on German imports and exports to Germany, ignores (or sucks dry) the rest of the country and is now mostly secular (form. Protestant).

Actually, Dutch navigations overseas originated with Burgundian Habsburg Spain, hence the red saltire.

Better fuck off then, kid. Prussia's achievements were build on the bones of the German people. As for the Hollanders ? Their achievements are build on the bones of the East and the South where they fought their battles against Spain and where their hired mercenaries competed with the mercenaries in the Spanish armies in who could loot and rape the best. Brabant, Guelders, Limburg and Flanders were left a howling wasteland because of them. In the meantime, the East and South get blamed for the colonies in the East and West Indies and the slave trade while they had fuck all to do with them and were little better than serfs and colonies in their own country and under the boot of those same Hollandic and imported Portuguese Jewish banksters that were sucking those poor people on the other side of the world dry.

I like the time when Leicester was Governor-General of the Netherlands under Elizabeth, to replace Calais lost under Mary and Philip.

btw, there was a nice thread

That's England's Europe.

[Nordarya]

The most manageable European community because the countries all have their similarities (but including Switzerland, East Germany (of course as part of Germany) and Austria) and revolve around Europe's economic and cultural heart and share a similar culture and past. Linguistically - it would also be easy: Dutch is spoken in Belgium and the Netherlands, German in Luxembourg, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and parts of Italy and France, French in France, Belgium, Switzerland and Luxembourg and Italian in Italy, Switzerland and some valleys in France. Plus - there are the regional languages of Rumantsch (in Switzerland) and Luxembourgian (Luxembourg). And if anything we should go full integration there: a joint foreign affairs and neutrality policy (goodbye NATO), an integrated army, CAP to protect our self-sufficiency and similar policies for our industry, a joint immigration policy (closing the door for America's mess).

[Rumata]

Young Turks succeeded in having Tsar down

This is my favourite part of Turkish fairy tales.

[Teutone]

We arent nordicists.

A Pan-Germanist in the German sense doesnt care about Scandinavia or the Anglosphere, the term Pan-Germanist is misleading indeed. Its about the idea to unite all ethnic German not Germanic nations.

I admire the anglosphere, but I dont feel related to them.

Scandinavia is alien to me, got more in common with French or North Italians.

[Nordarya]

We arent nordicists.

A Pan-Germanist in the German sense doesnt care about Scandinavia or the Anglosphere, the term Pan-Germanist is misleading indeed. Its about the idea to unite all ethnic German not Germanic nations.

I admire the anglosphere, but I dont feel related to them.

Scandinavia is alien to me, got more in common with French or North Italians.

At least you're honest about it, unlike Herr Hitler.

[Teutone]

At least you're honest about it, unlike Herr Hitler.

I mean Hitler allied with Iberians and Italians while he subjugated Scandinavians.

I think Himmler was the only real nordicist.
Any other Nationalsocialist leader was mostly greco-roman influenced and mainly limited nordicism to looks, not mentality,culture or phlisophy.

[Nordarya]

I mean Hitler allied with Iberians and Italians while he subjugated Scandinavians.

I think Himmler was the only real nordicist.
Any other Nationalsocialist leader was mostly greco-roman influenced and mainly limited nordicism to looks, not mentality,culture or phlisophy.

This is what Skadi and Stormfront are loath to admit.

[Teutone]

This is what Skadi and Stormfront are loath to admit.

delusional guys.

Scandinavia, Germanosphere, Anglosphere live seperated for such a long time, had wars with eachother, interactions with neighbours, historical alliances etc etc etc

This lead to independent unique cultures and civilizations, to me its silly to neglect that and think the same origins indicate we are still the same.

Neverless I repeat, I love and admire the anglosphere.

[Nordarya]

delusional guys.

Scandinavia, Germanosphere, Anglosphere live seperated for such a long time, had wars with eachother, interactions with neighbours, historical alliances etc etc etc

This lead to independent unique cultures and civilizations, to me its silly to neglect that and think the same origins indicate we are still the same.

Neverless I repeat, I love and admire the anglosphere.

Still, if pan-Celtic and pan-Slavic, pan-Romance groups exist, why not pan-Teutonic and even pan-Uralic? I'm not a civic nationalist.

[The Lawspeaker]

Germanic Saxony, whether Welf or Wettin, should be the heart of Germany, not quasi-Celtic Bavaria or quasi-Balto-Slavic Prussia.

Screw them all. All those feudal lords used the German people for cannon fodder. The only solution in declaring their property the property of the German People (the state) and to scrap all their titles. In other words: a republicanism.

England wants nothing to do with Europe except free association with Germanic countries for trade and cultural ties.

None should be granted as England has always used those ties to sow discord between Western European nations for the sake of maintaining "a balance of power". Britain's influence in Europe should be done away with altogether as Britain is just America's peg at this point. In fact: I would do away with all national Western European embassies in London and replace them with a EU embassy and demand that there should only be one UK embassy in Western Europe - to the European Union (or rather: European Community as we should go back to the Inner Six plus Switzerland and Austria). In fact: I would extend the same to both Russia, America and China. If they want to talk, they can talk to us as a collective - rather than going bilateral and playing us against each other.

Protestant Prussia vs Catholic Austria...I refuse to take sides about either "moral superiority". I would have preferred apolitical Mennonite or Amish ideal about a free land for bauers and no theocratic warmongering.

Oh. Absolutely. I think regaining those drowned lands in Northern Germany and along the Dollart and Eems are much more important.

This is why the Nassau, Welf and Oldenburg families should have ruled Deutschland, so it's too bad Richard of Cornwall didn't win the Imperial Crown in addition to the Kingly one, because it would have been to everyone's advantage in the present time, even if it was Plantagenets instead of the Hohenstaufen, Luxemburg, Habsburg and Hohenzollern dynasties.

All were as bad as the other. Screw the lot.

Look, a peaceful Axis of Berlin and Vienna, Alliance of London and Washington, is just fine.

As usually, you think too small. I'd rather see a federation along the Swiss model between the Inner Six and Switzerland and Austria.

It's too bad there's no true universal Germanic feeling.

It is what it is.

Americans don't want to pay for NATO and yet side with Britons about Europe. There's no cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance. The hallmark of Anglo-Saxon political culture since time and memorial.

Prussians and Austrians ruling Germany would be like Unionists and Confederates ruling Britain..

What a wonderful idea.. seeing how Britain and America work now. (sarcasm).

Unfortunately, Germany, including Prussia and Austria, are too integrated with Roman visions and not NW-minded like Teutons outside their empires.

You know you wanted to write Aachen, don't lie. I prefer Hedeby.

But you don't live in Europe and, consequently, not in the European reality.

Erasing Ostpolitik requires reclamation of Österreich for Ostmark and this would balance Bavarian needs for lebensraum, with a Dutch-Deutsch bilateralism instead..

No. It doesn't. It would merely be a continuation of the same politicies and we're not talking about Lebensraum here. Move along: the 19th century is over.

Well, Lothringen is always going to be dubious.

Not at all. The French and Germans don't have any problems with the current arrangement and all that needs to be done is to expand the protections for linguistic minorities and their political representation.

Germany and the Netherlands should withdraw from Europe and revive the Hanse, as Lübeck is currently working on.

You must be living in a fantasy world then as the Hanseatic League, currently, is just a collaboration between cities around the Baltic Sea without any political basis.

Actually, Dutch navigations overseas originated with Burgundian Habsburg Spain, hence the red saltire.

Not really. Until the Eighty Years' War, the Dutch didn't really go beyond the Med, the Atlantic, the Baltic and North Seas.

I like the time when Leicester was Governor-General of the Netherlands under Elizabeth, to replace Calais lost under Mary and Philip.

You're hopelessly naive then as Leicester betrayed several towns to the Spanish and had to be re-called to England within a year. He had totally disgraced himself - both here at in London.