View Poll Results: Your feelings towards Covid-19

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  • Nothing to see here, just a flu like any other, don't care

    46 29.68%
  • A little worried, just wait weeks and things will be okay as usual

    29 18.71%
  • Mixed feelings

    53 34.19%
  • A lot worried, things seems to get worse each day more, already thinking about stockpilling

    23 14.84%
  • WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!! Make Ranger0075 admin before our death!!

    14 9.03%
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Thread: Coronavirus 2020 plague

  1. #5011
    Veteran Member The Lawspeaker's Avatar
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    Modelers Were ‘Astronomically Wrong’ in COVID-19 Predictions, Says Leading Epidemiologist—and the World Is Paying the Price

    In a recent interview, Dr. John Ioannidis had a harsh assessment of modelers who predicted as many as 40 million people would die and the US healthcare system would be overrun because of COVID-19.

    Thursday, July 2, 2020


    Dr. John Ioannidis became a world-leading scientist by exposing bad science. But the COVID-19 pandemic could prove to be his biggest challenge yet.

    Ioannidis, the C.F. Rehnborg Chair in Disease Prevention at Stanford University, has come under fire in recent months for his opposition to state-ordered lockdowns, which he says could cause social harms well beyond their presumed benefits. But he doesn’t appear to be backing down.

    In a wide-ranging interview with Greek Reporter published over the weekend, Ioannidis said emerging data support his prediction that lockdowns would have wide-ranging social consequences and that the mathematical models on which the lockdowns were based were horribly flawed.

    Ioannidis also said a comprehensive review of the medical literature suggests that COVID-19 is far more widespread than most people realize.

    “There are already more than 50 studies that have presented results on how many people in different countries and locations have developed antibodies to the virus,” Ioannidis, a Greek-American physician, told Greek Reporter. “Of course none of these studies are perfect, but cumulatively they provide useful composite evidence. A very crude estimate might suggest that about 150-300 million or more people have already been infected around the world, far more than the 10 million documented cases.”

    Ioannidis said medical data suggest the fatality risk is far lower than earlier estimates had led policymakers to believe and “is almost 0%” for individuals under 45 years old. The median fatality rate is roughly 0.25 percent, however, because the risk “escalates substantially” for individuals over 85 and can be as high as 25 percent for debilitated people in nursing homes.

    “The death rate in a given country depends a lot on the age-structure, who are the people infected, and how they are managed,” Ioannidis said. “For people younger than 45, the infection fatality rate is almost 0%. For 45 to 70, it is probably about 0.05-0.3%. For those above 70, it escalates substantially…”

    Because of this, Ioannidis sees mass lockdowns of entire populations as a mistake, though he says they may have made sense when experts believed the fatality rate of COVID-19 was as high as 3-5 percent.

    In March, in a widely read STAT article, Ioannidis said it was uncertain how long lockdowns could be maintained without serious consequences.
    “One of the bottom lines is that we don’t know how long social distancing measures and lockdowns can be maintained without major consequences to the economy, society, and mental health,” Ioannidis wrote. "Unpredictable evolutions may ensue, including financial crisis, unrest, civil strife, war, and a meltdown of the social fabric.”

    Nearly three months after that interview, the world has seen unemployment levels unseen since the Great Depression, mass business closures, spikes in suicide and drug overdose, and social unrest on a scale not seen in the US since the 1960s.

    “I feel extremely sad that my predictions were verified,” Ioannidis said. He continued:


    “Major consequences on the economy, society and mental health” have already occurred. I hope they are reversible, and this depends to a large extent on whether we can avoid prolonging the draconian lockdowns and manage to deal with COVID-19 in a smart, precision-risk targeted approach, rather than blindly shutting down everything. Similarly, we have already started to see the consequences of “financial crisis, unrest, and civil strife.” I hope it is not followed by “war and meltdown of the social fabric.” Globally, the lockdown measures have increased the number of people at risk of starvation to 1.1 billion, and they are putting at risk millions of lives, with the potential resurgence of tuberculosis, childhood diseases like measles where vaccination programs are disrupted, and malaria. I hope that policymakers look at the big picture of all the potential problems and not only on the very important, but relatively thin slice of evidence that is COVID-19.”

    Ioannidis did not spare modelers who predicted as many as 40 million people would die, or those who claimed the US healthcare system would be overrun.

    “The predictions of most mathematical models in terms of how many beds and how many ICU beds would be required were astronomically wrong,” Ioannidis said. “Indeed, the health system was not overrun in any location in the USA, although several hospitals were stressed.”

    Conversely, he added, these actions had detrimental effects on the US health care system, which was “severely damaged” because of measures taken.

    Only time will tell if Ioannidis is proven correct in his assessments. But if he’s even half right, it would suggest that the experts did indeed fail again.

    There’s little question that the lockdowns have caused widespread economic, social, and emotional carnage. Evidence that US states that locked down fared better than states that did not is hard to find.

    Though not yet certain, the COVID-19 pandemic may well turn out to be another example of central planning gone wrong.

    As I previously noted, it’s a sad irony that many of the greatest disasters in modern history—from Stalin’s "kolkhoz" collective farming system to Mao’s Great Leap Forward and beyond—are the result of central planners trying to improve the lot of humanity through coercive action.

    During the coronavirus pandemic, experts may have unintentionally brought about one of the most serious human disasters in modern history by removing choice from individuals with superior local knowledge.

    “This is not a dispute about whether planning is to be done or not,” Hayek wrote in The Use of Knowledge in Society. “It is a dispute as to whether planning is to be done centrally, by one authority for the whole economic system, or is to be divided among many individuals.”


    Dr. Ioannidis on Results of Coronavirus Studies



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


  2. #5012
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    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    In America at least, we're definitely not going to be doing another round of lockdowns.

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    I think Indonesia, Philippines, Egypt, Iraq, Nigeria, etc. are rapidly becoming the next hotspots. Their cases will definitely reach 100,000s.

    Also there is a resurgence of corona in Thailand like now imported from Egypt and Sudan which has a much more severe strain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    In America at least, we're definitely not going to be doing another round of lockdowns.
    Do you think you are going to have a second spike in covid-19 fatalities soon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by renaissance12 View Post
    In Italy 30% of healed after hospitalization ( covid19 ) have permanent damage especially to the lungs.... no matter the age..

    THAT IS NO GOOD AT ALL
    I believe it is possible to recover, my mother is taking acetylcysteine and clarithromycin for the lungs, at the beggining she couldn't even up the stairs, but now she is walking well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Do you think you are going to have a second spike in covid-19 fatalities soon?
    Probably, but another shutdown would still be worse for the country.

  8. #5018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Probably, but another shutdown would still be worse for the country.
    'This 2nd wave' is going on for a while, but there's no greater fatality. Maybe they put better care for the ill ones now? Or has the strain became less violent? We don't hear such dramatic breaking news as that one related to NYC city previous struggle. It is constantly < 800 new fatalities nation-wide.
    Last edited by Roy; 07-15-2020 at 05:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    'This 2nd wave' is going on for a while, but there's no greater fatality. Maybe they put better care for the ill ones now? Or has the strain became less violent? We don't hear such dramatic breaking news as that one related to NYC city previous struggle. It is constantly < 800 new fatalities nation-wide.
    Apparently some states are are at record levels of new cases per day. Maybe the virus has become less lethal though. Who knows. Life seems to be getting mostly back to normal except for all this nonsense about wearing a mask. I don't wear one if I can help it, but many stores require it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Apparently some states are are at record levels of new cases per day. Maybe the virus has become less lethal though. Who knows. Life seems to be getting mostly back to normal except for all this nonsense about wearing a mask. I don't wear one if I can help it, but many stores require it.
    Has anyone from your family etc. has tested positive for it or blames it for some strange illness?

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