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A bit off topic: why is the term ashkenazi being used for Eastern European Jews? Doesn't ashkenaz mean Germany?
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Ashkenazi Jews are actually an especially diverse population genetically. Maybe not as diverse as South Asians or Sub-Saharan Africans, but they have high heterozygosity.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0826141331.htmThrough genomic analysis, researchers have shown that the Ashkenazi Jewish population is genetically more diverse than people of European descent, despite previous assumptions that Ashkenazi Jews have been an isolated population. In addition, analyses of disease-related genes of higher prevalence in the Ashkenazi Jewish population indicate that only a minority of traits show signs of positive selection, suggesting that most have arisen through random genetic drift.
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I've never seen Yekke results with a surprise German grandparent or great-grandparent. There is more than one study attesting that they're the most south shifted of Ashkenazim. IBD sharing with Eastern Euros is from converting their women and Jewish exits into East Euro society. I haven't yet seen one reliably East Slavic YDNA among Jews.
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There must have been at least some German immigrants from mixed marriages during the Fifth Aliyah. However Hafetz Haim was founded by all anti-assimilationists. My point was that it may be possible to isolate a Yekke population in Israel with no assimilationist influence.
In reaction to the Khmelnytsky Uprising of the 17th century there was significant conversions of Jews in Ukraine to Orthodoxy, not the other way around. Perhaps the outward gene flow is why IBD sharing dates East European admixture back to around that time. Rapes of Jewish women were still commonly reported during the uprising, so at least some Y-DNA in Ukrainian Jews must be Slavic.
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It's only worthwhile focusing on this if all the studies used the same dataset of German Jews.
You're too focused on that time period. Most, if not all of, Slavic MTDNA among Jews appears West Slavic and unrelated to that.In reaction to the Khmelnytsky Uprising century there was significant conversions of Jews in Ukraine to Orthodoxy, not the other way around.
I'm fully aware of the rapes. Let me know when you find East Slavic YDNA in a Jew.Perhaps the outward gene flow is why IBD sharing dates East European admixture back to around that time. Rapes of Jewish women were still commonly reported during the uprising, so at least some Y-DNA in Ukrainian Jews must be Slavic.
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Ashkenez was a great-grandson of Noah. Jews have associated his descendants originally with the Scythians, and eventually all Northern European peoples they encountered including Germans.
When Ashkenazi Jews became distinct in the Rhineland during the High Middle Ages, they called the region Ashkenaz and identified themselves with that name. When the expanded Eastward, they kept the name.
No Jews ever claimed to descend from Ashkenaz, they just identified with a region where they believed the native inhabitants descend from Ashkenaz.
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Between 1569 and 1648 large numbers of Jews from Western and Central Poland West of the Vistula moved East to serve absentee Polish landlords in the management of newly acquired land in Ruthenia/Ukraine. In this wave the Jewish population increased from an insignificant 4,000 to nearly 51,325. The Litvak Jewish population grew from the Late Middle ages on because of a unique bottleneck, rather than a large wave of migration.
Given a newly significant Ukrainian Jewish population facing frequent attacks, it would make more sense for Admixture to occur in mid-17th century Ukraine than Late Middle Age Western Poland which was more stable.
Last edited by Aberration; 04-05-2020 at 04:46 AM.
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In my case I don't see that. I am entirely descended from Upper-Middle class Assimilated Ashkenazi Jews from Northeastern France and Western Germany my ancestors moved to the United States in the mid 19th century. my GG grandfather who was from Alsace had like 14 kids and like half of them married non-Jews. There are very very few Americans who are only descended from these mid 19th century immigrants because they kept intermarrying with non Yekkes. I belong to that rare group of those that are pure descendents. If you look at some of the names in my family tree you can see we were assimilated some names were Julius, Wilhelm, Herbert, Charles, Louis, Maurice, Fredrick, Gunther, Bernard, Ludwig, etc Many male relatives were named after their fathers which is rare in Ashkenazi Jews. Few had Hebrew letters on their grave stones. and there are other ways in which we were assimilated. Anyways enough talk about how my family was assimilated but my genetics. I am one of the most MENA shifted Ashkenazi I have ever seen. Here are some GEDMATCH stuff to show that
This is Eurogenes K13 Oracles
Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze @ 5.334238
2 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.686549
3 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 5.698139
4 Algerian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze @ 5.710593
5 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze @ 5.747416
6 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish @ 5.967445
7 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian @ 6.056373
8 Algerian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 6.101953
9 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Sephardic_Jewish @ 6.124269
10 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 6.129418
11 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Samaritan @ 6.135683
12 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish @ 6.164940
13 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze @ 6.167490
14 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 6.167686
15 Algerian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 6.174031
16 Cyprian + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 6.215404
17 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian @ 6.247267
18 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze @ 6.254271
19 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + West_Sicilian @ 6.272664
20 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 6.277711
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.7% Italian_Jewish + 14.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.22
2 93.5% Italian_Jewish + 6.5% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.54
3 89.6% Italian_Jewish + 10.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.59
4 90.8% Italian_Jewish + 9.2% Samaritan @ 4.72
5 92.6% Italian_Jewish + 7.4% Palestinian @ 4.79
6 96.5% Italian_Jewish + 3.5% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.9
7 93.3% Italian_Jewish + 6.7% Cyprian @ 4.91
8 97.1% Italian_Jewish + 2.9% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.93
9 96.3% Italian_Jewish + 3.7% Jordanian @ 4.93
10 97.9% Italian_Jewish + 2.1% Saudi @ 4.93
11 89.8% Italian_Jewish + 10.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.94
12 97.2% Italian_Jewish + 2.8% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.95
13 98.1% Italian_Jewish + 1.9% Egyptian @ 4.96
14 98.5% Italian_Jewish + 1.5% Assyrian @ 4.96
15 99.4% Italian_Jewish + 0.6% Bedouin @ 4.97
16 100% Italian_Jewish + 0% Syrian @ 4.98
17 100% Italian_Jewish + 0% Abhkasian @ 4.98
18 100% Italian_Jewish + 0% Adygei @ 4.98
19 100% Italian_Jewish + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 4.98
20 100% Italian_Jewish + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 4.98
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