Are gym culture and male shirtlessness a sign of progress and gender equality?

[Tooting Carmen]

In the not-too-distant past, it used to be the case that fat/hairy/ugly men could nevertheless have good careers and be highly respected as individuals, in a way that admittedly has never really been the case with women. This was true of a range of groups: actors, journalists, politicians, porn stars and even sportsmen. (Look at how musclebound rugby players, for example, are nowadays compared to the past).

Nowadays, however, you only have to pick up any magazine or watch any film, reality show or soap opera to see that men's bodies are just as objectified and put out on display as are women's, if not possibly more so. Nor is this exclusively a Western phenomenon either: Bollywood, for example, is full of scantily-clad musclebound actors nowadays, in a way that was quite rare even in the 1990's.

To give you perhaps the best illustration of this societal change:

James Bond 1971


James Bond 2012

[nittionia]

It’s not a big issue in gender equality

[Tooting Carmen]

It’s not a big issue in gender equality

It is in the sense that the motto is "you can have your eye candy so we can have ours".

[nittionia]

It is in the sense that the motto is "you can have your eye candy so we can have ours".

It’s true that male bodies are objectified more, but not necessarily progress. Entertainment culture doesn’t reflect a lot of gender issues in the US accurately

[Lioncourt]

I read the topic title, opened the page and first thing I misread was "scantily-Chad", and it took me 5 minutes to make sure /r incels hasn't moved here.

[ixulescu]

This thread tells me that gay men are still men. They look at sex like men do, it's all about body parts, tits/pecs, ass, legs etc.

This is nothing like women see sex. For women sex is about relationships. Being pursued by a man well ranked in her group or by society in general is what turns women on, and not some model's body. Of course, nowadays society tries really hard to change women's sexuality but I don't see that succeeding.

[JosephK]

This thread tells me that gay men are still men. They look at sex like men do, it's all about body parts, tits/pecs, ass, legs etc.

This is nothing like women see sex. For women sex is about relationships. Being pursued by a man well ranked in her group or by society in general is what turns women on, and not some model's body. Of course, nowadays society tries really hard to change women's sexuality but I don't see that succeeding.

But that isn't to say that women aren't superficial. It's just that they attach emotion and importance to their sex drive, whereas men can distinguish between the two. Millions of teen girls want Justin Beiber to marry them, not just screw them.

[JosephK]

It’s true that male bodies are objectified more, but not necessarily progress. Entertainment culture doesn’t reflect a lot of gender issues in the US accurately

Since as long as I've been alive, though, men have been shamed for showing superficial interest in women. Playboy was considered pornography, and it was shameful to buy it (and embarrassing) even if for the rather high-end literature and satire that it primarily provided. Women, on the other hand, have been encouraged to be superficial.

[nittionia]

Since as long as I've been alive, though, men have been shamed for showing superficial interest in women. Playboy was considered pornography, and it was shameful to buy it (and embarrassing) even if for the rather high-end literature and satire that it primarily provided. Women, on the other hand, have been encouraged to be superficial.

Sexual interest is a big conversation. Women are shamed for being promiscuous, men are applauded more often. At the end of the day those are both personal choices and shouldn’t have much to do with anyone else but yourself. And, really, when has shame stopped men from indulging in these things all together?

[JosephK]

Sexual interest is a big conversation. Women are shamed for being promiscuous, men are applauded more often. At the end of the day those are both personal choices and shouldn’t have much to do with anyone else but yourself. And, really, when has shame stopped men from indulging in these things all together?

But that simply isn't true. That's a stereotype. It's like saying everyone loves and respects Jeff Bezos because he's so rich. The only guys that respect promiscuous dudes are other creepy promiscuous dudes--the 'problem' is that these bros become important, powerful people, and are promiscuous because women are choosing--or at least willing--to have sex with them.