Are gym culture and male shirtlessness a sign of progress and gender equality?

[Tooting Carmen]

That's the thing... male attractiveness if fairly objective, whereas men like all sorts of women. But it's not even just "handsomeness" or a nice chest that draws women to them, but, I've noticed, a certain "Bigness"... large guys tend to do well. The only White guys I've ever known who could pick up girls like Black and Latino guys were well over 6 ft tall and fairly wide. I think it has to do with a sense of importance and confidence that comes from a lifetime of being intimidating. Being handsome helps, of course. But it works the same way with finding a good job, making friends, etc.

I agree that Black men are often popular with White (and even some Asian and MENA) women, but Latino men? First of all, Latinos aren't really a race anyway, and secondly, if by 'Latino' you essentially mean Mestizos, then many of them are short and actually quite anodyne (due to the Amerindian mixture).

[nittionia]

That's the thing... male attractiveness if fairly objective, whereas men like all sorts of women. But it's not even just "handsomeness" or a nice chest that draws women to them, but, I've noticed, a certain "Bigness"... large guys tend to do well. The only White guys I've ever known who could pick up girls like Black and Latino guys were well over 6 ft tall and fairly wide. I think it has to do with a sense of importance and confidence that comes from a lifetime of being intimidating. Being handsome helps, of course. But it works the same way with finding a good job, making friends, etc.

Social status and money have more to do with it from a woman's view. Women seek stability and put looks on the lower end of priorities when/if it comes down to that (for long-term, monogamous relations). And reasons for promiscuity differ between men and women. Anyways, to get back to the OP, strictly viewing the objectification of men's bodies as progression wouldn't really relate to heterosexual women in the western world as much as other issues would. Ideally both genders wouldn't be so sexually fueled in pop culture, which doesn't help the general population have healthy mindsets regarding relationships.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

This thread tells me that gay men are still men. They look at sex like men do, it's all about body parts, tits/pecs, ass, legs etc.

This is nothing like women see sex. For women sex is about relationships. Being pursued by a man well ranked in her group or by society in general is what turns women on, and not some model's body. Of course, nowadays society tries really hard to change women's sexuality but I don't see that succeeding.

Some gay men do have corny romantic fantasies in a feminine way, like finding prince charming


But the majority would have fetishs of the male body in a similar way heterosexual males go after the playmate body type.

For example VIgorexiA fetish


Hair fetish


ephebophilia fetish


Most women woud find sex with those men gross.

[Creoda]

It's a sign of faggot creep in the culture.

It seems to me that gays are far more into shirtless men than women are.

[nittionia]

It's a sign of faggot creep in culture.

It seems to me that gays are far more into shirtless men than women are.

Men's brains react stronger to visual (sexual) stimuli than women. It's allegedly evolutionary in order to have a faster decision time and max. opportunity of mating.

[Tooting Carmen]

It's a sign of faggot creep in the culture.

It seems to me that gays are far more into shirtless men than women are.

That's debatable. Check out these telethons from Australia:

[JamesBond007]

In the not-too-distant past, it used to be the case that fat/hairy/ugly men could nevertheless have good careers and be highly respected as individuals, in a way that admittedly has never really been the case with women. This was true of a range of groups: actors, journalists, politicians, porn stars and even sportsmen. (Look at how musclebound rugby players, for example, are nowadays compared to the past).

Nowadays, however, you only have to pick up any magazine or watch any film, reality show or soap opera to see that men's bodies are just as objectified and put out on display as are women's, if not possibly more so. Nor is this exclusively a Western phenomenon either: Bollywood, for example, is full of scantily-clad musclebound actors nowadays, in a way that was quite rare even in the 1990's.

To give you perhaps the best illustration of this societal change:

The Gym is overrated :

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

Chads to men and women. Sure is, but almost all attractive men want to score as much as they can, all man do.

Hence why all women want chads while on the other hand men don't want sluts. Paradox with which women have to make peace.

Women want what other women want, if other women are talking shit about a guy, his price goes down.

[Celestia]

Sexual interest is a big conversation. Women are shamed for being promiscuous, men are applauded more often. At the end of the day those are both personal choices and shouldn’t have much to do with anyone else but yourself. And, really, when has shame stopped men from indulging in these things all together?

Preach it girl

[Celestia]

Women want what other women want, if other women are talking shit about a guy, his price goes down.

This isn’t always the case. Some women like a challenge.
“If she can’t handle him then I can”
Also if a woman is talking that badly about a guy it usually means there’s still some kind of feelings involved on her side. That goes for both men and women though. If you still like someone you’re not gonna hand them out like a piece of pie ;D