"Honor killing" in North Caucasus: Ingush stabbed own sister to death

[Kamal900]

Perhaps, the fact that we no longer do it here in Europe (the last outbreak of that was during World War II - except they weren't killed but publicly shamed and humiliated) is because society has become safer. Although - as late as the 1950s, women in my native province who had broken their marriage vows were chased around the village and were publicly shamed. Who knows what the future can bring, hmm ?

It's all due to neoliberalism really which had infected much of the western world after the war. I mean, look at what happened to that Finnish pro-migrant girl with her Palestinian boyfriend. This is an example on what I said in regards to the differences between women and men. I mean, while my own kin did such extremely disgusting acts against her which I'm glad that he committed suicide afterwards, I highly doubt that the incident would change the overall European women's perception in regards to the refugee crisis and all that. I mean, I don't know what the future would bring, but at the same time, I do learn the histories of the past like the Roman empire where they began indulging in their own hedonism to the point that their own borders collapsed and the Roman empire was no more. I mean, god forbid that such thing would happen to all western countries in the future, but it should be a reminder to all western peoples of the world and their fate if they don't do anything about it.

[Kamal900]

Maghreb is suni also but there are no honor killings in our culture, protectiveness yes but honor killings no.

Indeed, which has to do more with culture than simply due to religion.

[The Lawspeaker]

But they were not killed. But difference. Nor did the family need to "avange" the shame.

The neighbourhood did it for them. A lot of those girls did a bit worse than just riding Nazi dick for money, cigarettes and chocolate. Some also turned in resistance fighters and people in hiding like Jews etc.

[The Lawspeaker]

It's all due to neoliberalism really which had infected much of the western world after the war. I mean, look at what happened to that Finnish pro-migrant girl with her Palestinian boyfriend. This is an example on what I said in regards to the differences between women and men. I mean, while my own kin did such extremely disgusting acts against her which I'm glad that he committed suicide afterwards, I highly doubt that the incident would change the overall European women's perception in regards to the refugee crisis and all that. I mean, I don't know what the future would bring, but at the same time, I do learn the histories of the past like the Roman empire where they began indulging in their own hedonism to the point that their own borders collapsed and the Roman empire was no more. I mean, god forbid that such thing would happen to all western countries in the future, but it should be a reminder to all western peoples of the world and their fate if they don't do anything about it.

I actually think it's dormant in Western culture. It's not like we went around cutting off girls hairs before 1940 for even looking at the wrong guy. By the end of the war, people had had enough and started to take matters into their own hands when Jerry left the building. It was mainly in that power vacuum between occupation and the institution of a new temporal military government (the Militair Gezag - as it was called), that people took the law into their own hands. Until well into the 1960s, rural parts of the country didn't have much of a police other than the Rijkspolitie and Marechaussee (military police) and guess what those were staffed with, you guessed it: Hollanders (from a historical point of view: imagine the Palestinian police being staffed with Jews or the Irish police with Unionist Brits). Well.. that was a bit of a problem in Brabant and Limburg where the locals didn't particularly appreciate those "near foreigners' and preferred to do things their own way. Illegal or not illegal.

What that look like ? Oss was perhaps the most notorious example but the whole border area was nothing but smuggling.

[Kamal900]

I actually think it's dormant in Western culture. It's not like we went around cutting off girls hairs before 1940 for even looking at the wrong guy. By the end of the war, people had had enough and started to take matters into their own hands when Jerry left the building. It was mainly in that power vacuum between occupation and the institution of a new temporal military government (the Militair Gezag - as it was called), that people took the law into their own hands. Until well into the 1960s, rural parts of the country didn't have much of a police other than the Rijkspolitie and Marechaussee (military police) and guess what those were staffed with, you guessed it: Hollanders (from a historical point of view: imagine the Palestinian police being staffed with Jews or the Irish police with Unionist Brits). Well.. that was a bit of a problem in Brabant and Limburg where the locals didn't particularly appreciate those "near foreigners' and preferred to do things their own way. Illegal or not illegal.

Indeed. Back in Germanic pagan societies 2,000 - your ancient ancestors - a man would cut off his wife's hair, strip her completely naked and parade her in public to shame and humiliate her if she was caught for infidelity. After that, she's never allowed to marry ever again. In fact, Germanic men and even women remained celibate(voluntary virgins) till they reach the age of 20 according to Tacitus(they married late in ancient period's standards) which they considered as an act of virtue for a man to control his sexual urges, and learned the necessary skills for survival from the previous generation. Things indeed have changed a lot in just a generation or two.

[The Lawspeaker]

Indeed. Back in Germanic pagan societies 2,000 - your ancient ancestors - a man would cut off his wife's hair, strip her completely naked and parade her in public to shame and humiliate her if she was caught for infidelity. After that, she's never allowed to marry ever again. In fact, Germanic men and even women remained celibate(voluntary virgins) till they reach the age of 20 according to Tacitus(they married late in ancient period's standards) which they considered as an act of virtue for a man to control his sexual urges, and learned the necessary skills for survival from the previous generation. Things indeed have changed a lot in just a generation or two.

Indeed. Both my grandfathers (North or South) were well up in their 20s when they married my grandmothers. By then - they were already standing members of society in their respective areas. Not as in being big wigs but they completed they completed their education and already had their careers.

[WeißerJunge]

Since the dawn of human civilization really. I mean, back in the day, European men for example would publicly humiliate their own women if she was caught having sex or married with an enemy tribesman. There were times that even killings against such women back then was normal. There's a scientific reasoning behind it since women in general tend to be less loyal to their tribe than men, and really, her chances of getting pregnant with an alpha male is far greater if she slept with an alpha male from the enemy tribe while the men of her tribe would get fuck all and get little to no chance to breed for the next generation. Honor killings or humiliation is something that human men did to protect their own women to themselves. Of course, cultures and societies differ from one another, so you can't say that Persians or Levantine Christians behave like Kurds or Yezidis when it comes to these things, you know?

You can even observe this behavior in Latin America with criminal organizations and cartels. It's not about ethnicity, but sleeping with a man from a rival gang is the worst rule a woman can break in those circles. And the punishment is pretty harsh (torture and death).

[The Lawspeaker]

Perhaps, that makes us the most kind people of the lot. Shaving her head and parading her around town is what she would have gotten here. Plus: thrown out of her community. But, perhaps, in the old days, being excluded and evicted from your own community, was perhaps a faith worse than death.

[Lioncourt]

Perhaps, the fact that we no longer do it here in Europe

I'm pretty sure it is still practiced in villages in many parts in Mediterranean Europe. Maybe not killing, but beating and humiliation. Full blown blood feuds still exist as well.

It is part of the tribal mentality, Southern European and Balkan peoples who never divided on tribes, don't have such practices. I think Scots and Irish had this barbarian thing going as well.

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm pretty sure it is still practiced in villages in many parts in Mediterranean Europe. Maybe not killing, but beating and humiliation. Full blown blood feuds still exist as well.

It is part of the tribal mentality, Southern European and Balkan peoples who never divided on tribes, don't have such practices. I think Scots and Irish had this barbarian thing going as well.

Southern Italy, maybe. Albania too. I have heard some stories about Corsica and parts of Greece. I don't think the Scots and Irish have this mentality. In the case of the Netherlands, it was mainly an indication of social conflict in areas where they couldn't trust the government so that is now pretty much gone as well.