Turks vs Romans. First records.

[Heaven]

From the source it seems the Turks were uncivilized, rude and were amazed that the Romans as any civilized folk tried to escape direct fighting and tried to use diplomacy in this way. In my view Turks do not come off as heros. Maybe I m seeing it from todays perspective? But it seems they were thickheaded, uneducated and wild.

Very ignorant post.

Uncivilised = without civilization.
In order to talk about a civilization, you first need to have state, order and law.

Back then (6th century AD), there were only 4 main states in the World:
1. Turk
2. Rome
3. China
4. Sasani Persia

In the quote, the Grey Wolf refers to his rebellious slaves, the Uarkhonitai (Panonian Avars) and blame treacherous Romans of signing treaty with those Avars.
Then same shameless Romas going to Turks and begging help against Persian forces.

Did you know that those rebellious slaves to whom Shad refers to (Avars) are people who created Yugoslavs and the Balkan world?
YOUR UNCIVILIZED SLAVIC ANCESTORS WERE LIVING IN SWAMPS MADE OF SH.T AND MUD IN POLAND WHEN THOSE AVARS TOOK YOU TO SOUTH.

Thus,
Dear Slavo Balkanite,
You blame the Master (Tumgan Shad) of your Masters (Panonian Avars) of being uncivilised when they had 1 out of the 4 civilizations existing back then. Can you figure out the oxymoron?

Don't write again if you are so ignorant. Because then we appear as snobs by giving you the lesson you deserve.

Long story short:
Back then Slavs were the only UNCIVILIZED, backwards people around.

[Heaven]

And we haven't yet talked about how your Bulgaria came to be... Bulgars were just one of the subject tribes living under the Grey Wolf family.
Those handful Bulgars owned Slavic Balkan masses.

LoL in the end of the day the Slav comes and blames people of being uncivilised.

[ioan assen]

Very ignorant post.

Uncivilised = without civilization.
In order to talk about a civilization, you first need to have state, order and law.

Back then (6th century AD), there were only 4 main states in the World:
1. Turk
2. Rome
3. China
4. Sasani Persia

In the quote, the Grey Wolf refers to his rebellious slaves, the Uarkhonitai (Panonian Avars) and blame treacherous Romans of signing treaty with those Avars.
Then same shameless Romas going to Turks and begging help against Persian forces.

Did you know that those rebellious slaves to whom Shad refers to are people who created Yugoslavs and the Balkan world?
YOUR UNCIVILIZED SLAVIC ANCESTORS WERE LIVING IN SWAMPS MADE OF SH.T AND MUD IN POLAND WHEN THOSE AVARS TOOK YOU TO SOUTH.

Thus,
Dear Slavo Balkanite,
You blame the Master (Tumgan Shad) of your Masters (Panonian Avars). Can you figure out the oxymoron?

Don't write again if you are so ignorant. Because then we appear as snobs by giving you the lesson you deserve.

Long story short:
Back then Slavs were the only UNCIVILIZED, backwards people around.

To have civilization you do not need only state, order and law. At least not a civilization that deserves a mention. Apart from state, order and law, you need books, architecture, development etc. You can be a barbaric organization and still manage to have state, order and law.
As for what created the Balkans: it wasn't only the Slavs, but also the Bulgars (which of course you would claim as Tukic=Turkish in your view) and the pre-Slavic Thracians, Greeks and Illyrians. All those people contributed to the nations of the Balkans. And the fact that some savages ruled over the Slavs doesn't prove they are a civilization, especially if they exploited and terrorized those people. A civilization lures in people, make them part of the whole: like the Romans, Bulgars, Greeks etc.

[Heaven]

To have civilization you do not need only state, order and law. At least not a civilization that deserves a mention. Apart from state, order and law, you need books, architecture, development etc. You can be a barbaric organization and still manage to have state, order and law.
As for what created the Balkans: it wasn't only the Slavs, but also the Bulgars (which of course you would claim as Tukic=Turkish in your view) and the pre-Slavic Thracians, Greeks and Illyrians. All those people contributed to the nations of the Balkans. And the fact that some savages ruled over the Slavs doesn't prove they are a civilization, especially if they exploited and terrorized those people. A civilization lures in people, make them part of the whole: like the Romans, Bulgars, Greeks etc.

Civilizations are shaped by the production system of people making it up. Pastoral Nomads didn't need to have permanent stone residence. Simple as that.

Besides, the Turks could work iron back then and produce weapons, horseshoes, stirrups etc. Slavs couldn't. It is why Uarkhonitai Avars were capturing them and moving them south, thus forming Balkans. Like Portuguese seizing Blacks in Africa and moving them to Brazil in 16th century.

[Bosniensis]

I think I don't see everything muslim as hostile, just alien and the Turkish/Ottoman culture hold off the development of the Balkans for centuries. One only has to look at the Austro-hungarian parts of Europe and the Ottoman ones to know how underdeveloped Ottoman parts were. There was extensive exchange between the Balkans and the Italian city states before the Ottomans. All this stopped with the appearance of the Ottomans. The whole Ottoman empire didn't allow any European influence until 19th century.

So called Renaissance of Western Europe that Ottomans apparently missed is related to mass burglary of entire world.

The reason why West became so powerful is because they are atheistic, materialistic genocidal conquerors (remember Astecs, remember American Natives, Australian Natives, South Africans etc..)

True Christian or Muslims should not look at those whom have strayed FAR away from spiritual teachings of Jesus and apostoles.

So called "Modern West" that you call to be the most advanced had invented: Feminism, LGBT, Human Composting Facilities. etc...

You Bulgarians should be happy that you haven't participated in such events of barbarism and their riches.

Also keep in mind that most culturally advanced nation from 15-17 century in Europe was Ottoman Empire.