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Thread: Finnish army report

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benyzero View Post
    it is still mandatory to serve a time there, right?
    It is. 6-11 months, if I recall right .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    Which one to choose from below 5 fighter candidates (to upgrade present F18 Hornets)? All 5 planes are gonna be tested now in Finland (difficult winter conditions).

    The landing requirement of F35 is absolutely a problem. Just now I would take Saab, but at the end they buy F35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    33% of men can't serve the obligatory period in army, because they can't use urinal and common shower room. I wonder why, but the army calls now women to fill the shortage

    https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11204371
    The article didn't say the figure was 33% but approximately a third, and it includes persons who are exempt from conscription. According to another article, only 15.7% of conscripts dropped out of military service in 2018.

    For example my friend was exempted from conscription because he had a major surgery when he was about 12, even though he would still have been physically capable of performing the obligatory military service. Also the population of Åland Islands is exempted from conscription, and it's about .5% of the total population of Finland.

    Anyway, I think it's good news that males are too gay and weak to perform the conscription service. It's better that the different programs for destroying the brains and bodies of humanity have been kept in place, because otherwise the rate of technological development would likely have been so much faster that humanity would already have become extinct. People didn't turn out like this because they didn't try hard enough, but because they were deliberately being soft-killed from the top down (and I believe it's for our own best).

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    Here is a Google translation. It is true that 18% of young men don't even try to be committed to armed service, so we don't know real reasons or their instinct motives. Only those persons themselves know, but the reason can't be any physical disability, if we don't start to split hairs.

    It is also true that young men today are physically much worse than they were 20-30 years ago and this in many cases leads to interruption of service. You need only to watch young people in present and older photos to realize the unwanted progress.


    __________________________________________________

    Even one in three men leaves the army - According to the Army, living together harasses some men
    Common toilets, toilets and showers frustrate some of the men: "That's the craziest thing to do" - watch a video of what young men think about going to the military.

    The armed forces are frantically trying to find ways and ways of service so that as many men as possible can perform their military service.

    According to Commander Petri Hulkko, one out of every three men in the current age bracket will miss conscript service. The number has increased compared to previous years.

    That is, by the thirties, every third male in the current age bracket will not complete military service.

    One of the major reasons for not performing military service is mental health problems, troubled conditions in the military.

    - The reasons are many. But often the reasons culminate in living together, doing things. Let's sleep, live in the same hut. It is distressing to visit the same toilet, the same shower rooms. All the same things that plague schoolchildren, Hulkko lists.

    If problems arise, the health authorities make a final assessment of the young person's ability to serve.

    According to Hulk, physical causes are the reasons for interruption of service in "a minimal time role".

    - Mental health challenges are the main reasons for suspension. Experiencing anxiety. The same qualifying is in the calls, Hulkko estimates.

    Instead, the interruption survey for the conscripts gives a different picture.

    According to the results of the interruption survey, the physical causes of health (about 48%) are a larger group of reasons for interruption of service than the mental health reasons (about 25%). The responses of the conscripts will be from all branches of defense in late 2018 and early 2019.

    Applying for civilian service is the cause of the survey in 18% of cases.

    The Army is marketing success as an experience for life
    The Army is trying to create new missions for conscript service that will allow more and more men to perform conscript service. Not everyone is trying to train assault rifle fighters anymore.

    In the philosophy of Commander Petri Hulkko, society has changed. From the point of view of the operations of the Defense Forces, in addition to fighters, knowledge of the cyber world, for example, is needed.

    Conscripts are offered missions as encoders as maintainers of virtual training, as well as training for local troops and government cooperation, that is, outside of front-line combat missions

    - We're trying to find those who are prime in their comfort zone. All young people are prideful when they want it, Hulkko ponders.

    - The Army is working to enable more and more men to successfully complete conscript service and to have a successful experience for their entire lives

    "Every Family Experience in Military Service"
    According to Hulkko, men's condition began to deteriorate in the mid-1990s. By that time, rural society had become an information society. Now the decline in physical fitness has stopped, but mental health problems are worrying.

    The Commander of the Armed Forces strives to maintain the experience of military service in each family. It should uphold the will of the national defense. Therefore, every potential man and volunteer women should be recruited into the military.

    "More women in service and as many men as possible," the Army commander sums up.

    Most men and women volunteering for military service are in the Army.

    However, the Armed Forces have no sudden fear of the death of the conscripts. The birth rates of conscripts in the next couple of decades are known

    Number of women doubled or tripled "
    Commander Petri Hulkko would like more women to do military service. Currently, less than a thousand women perform military service every year. Military service is provided by a total of over 20,000 young adults each year.

    "If the number of women doubled or tripled, I would be extremely pleased," Petri Hulkko said at a news conference at the Finnish Armed Forces in Helsinki.

    This would mean two or three thousand women each year in the military service. These women should replace men who for some reason are incapable of conscript service.

    There will be more advertising and social messages for women about the Defense Forces.

    All duties of the Defense Forces are open to women. Women are also encouraged to take up leadership roles

    Women and men come together for a trial run in the spring
    For the first time this spring, the Armed Forces will try out women's and men's joint shots. The experiment begins at the Reserve Officer School in Hamina.

    According to the Defense Forces, the initiative for joint shots has come from the direction of those who serve. In the experiment, more men and women are accommodated in each room so that no one is required to represent their own gender in the room alone.

    Denmark moved to the Commons a few years ago, Sweden and Norway decades ago. In the washrooms and toilets, privacy is guaranteed. The experience is good.

    - Sexual harassment in Denmark has decreased significantly since the reform, says Hulkko.

    In the Finnish Navy, women and men conscripts are already accommodated in common areas. There is no room for separate male and female accommodation on ships

    kansalaispalvelusta ja pitäisikö naisten päästä vapaaehtoisina kutsuntoihin mukaan.

    Kansalaispalvelusta selvitetään vaihtoehtona varusmiespalvelukselle. Samalla selvitetään siviilipalveluksen suhde muihin palvelusmuotoihin.

    Hulkko kertoo, ettei aio linnottautua nykyisen, miesten varaan rakentuvan asevelvollisuusjärjestelmän taakse. Maavoimien komentajan mukaan poliitikkojen linjausta noudatetaan.

    Tällä hetkellä petipaikat kasarmeilla eivät riitä sekä kaikkia miehiä että kaikkia naisia velvoittavaan palvelukseen.

    – Se on toisaalta tasa-arvokysymys, toisaalta se on resurssikysymys. Nämä reunaehdot poliitikkojen pitää tiedostaa, kun päätöksiä tai suosituksia asevelvollisuusryhmästä tehdään, Hulkko sanoo.
    835/5000
    Politicians are wondering whether civic service would also be needed
    In the spring, a parliamentary party working group will start exploring civic service and whether women should volunteer to be invited.

    Civil service is being explored as an alternative to conscript service. At the same time, the relationship between civil service and other forms of service will be clarified.

    Hulkko says he does not intend to fortify the current men's conscription system. According to the Commander of the Armed Forces, the policy of politicians is followed.

    At the moment, barracks in the barracks are not enough to serve both men and women.

    - It is an equality issue on the one hand and a resource issue on the other. Politicians need to be aware of these boundaries when making decisions or making recommendations on the conscription group, Hulkko says
    Last edited by Lemminkäinen; 02-15-2020 at 11:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    The landing requirement of F35 is absolutely a problem. Just now I would take Saab, but at the end they buy F35.

    Agree. 1.) Typhoon > 2.) Rafael > 3.) Super Hornets .... would all be upgrades vs present F-18s, but not the options for future (20 years period).

    Saab Gripen E opposite would offer bigger step up.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FZlOWIJWCo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9RVwyHsSiY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ayhkntJ3wg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMwN-3XaEfc

    No doubt it would be ''good enough'' vs MIGs and SUHOIs etc. Plus same plane type (Sweden and Finland) would make it even more easy to co-operate in air-space control. Patria (Finland's military company) could build those planes partly (offering works for Finns) and Finns could also handle some of those planes services etc. by themselves.

    Gripen E is most likely the last fighter Sweden will create. Rumor says that Saab will join next generation multi-european fighter project. Finland could (should) do the same and choose that plane after these one (somewhere 2040-2045). Plus in the eyes of Russians ... I think they would ''value'' this option more than US-fighters (being ''neutral''). My only question/concern today is will Saab get Gripen E fully ready in time.

    Trump said 1,5 years ago (international press conference together with Finland's president Sauli Niinistö) that Finland will gonna buy American fighters. Niinistö denied that (afterwards) to Finland's own media: No decisions have been made yet. But like you said, US doesn't need to say much (''threat'' or ''promise'') and Finns will choose F-35s.

    I'm partly interest in this topic as I want to be able to follow the public discussions/debates in the future (2020 - 2021). This will be (moneywise) the biggest deal Finland has ever made. Who of the leaders/politicians will speak full BS and who will speak truth.
    Last edited by Finnish Swede; 02-15-2020 at 12:17 PM.

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    Id bann women from military.

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    Gripen E (Saab JAS 39E Gripen) "39-10" walkaround at Saab's HX Challenge media day at Satakunta Air Command Air Force Base, Finland.

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    Scandal in Finland's fighter project (= plan to purchase new fighters).

    http://www.wirenewsfax.com/corruptio...very-seriously

    Looks like USA company Lockeed Martin calculated totally wrongly. They though that hiring Jarmo Linberg would be wise move ... Jarmo has contacts, knows Finland's military and needs very well. They also might hired him as he knows the basics of competitors offers. Still in Finland corruption etc. is very big issue vs any other countries. In worst case (Lockeed Martin) ... this can lead to outcome that Finland ''can not choose'' F-35 fighters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    Still in Finland corruption etc. is very big issue vs any other countries. In worst case (Lockeed Martin) ... this can lead to outcome that Finland ''can not choose'' F-35 fighters.
    Yeah the arms deals done under the table are a huge problem, not just in Finland.

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