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the reason i am making this tread is because of things i have seen here in the apricity as well as in the internet (for an example youtube video commentary) or anywhere else when it's come tho north african and middle eastern.
in which i believe this seriously doesn't add-up (according to my) and least according tho history (if i don't get wrong)
there is always "these partisan people" (for some of them not all) or the others that say the same thing as these partisan people in which some of them are keyboard warriors in both side
usually its goes something like dat:
about the Maghrebian-arabist "we are all Arabs in the Maghreb--Berbers/Amazigh is a false identity in the Maghreb" vs the berberist we are all amazigh--Arabs identity is false identity in the Maghreb/there is no arabs in the maghreb"
there is also the case of the Lebanese identityan Arabist vs Phoenicianist duality or among the Egyptian: pan-arabism vs pharaonism dualism but i don't know what's the pan-arabist of these country like tho claim beside "the we are arabs" basic claim off all the pan-Arabs
such ideology also tend to turn intro some kind of Afrocentrist or even Nordicist who some claim non-Nordic civilization like Rome: where for an example pan-Arabs and Berberist in the Maghreb will try tho both claim ancient Carthage or even the Phoenician
now i will tries to explain to you via example why its "doesn't add up" via example:
in my exemple i will divide the mena people in 3 categories: (which i consider a more realistic separation but i don't mine if somebody tell my than i got wrong)
1.the people (pre-arabs mostly) that historically belong tho there lands (whatsoever identifying seriously as natives Berbers,Copts or non natives identification such as Arabs/neutral-there country/others "regardless of there religion" in all case)
2.the ethnic Arabs that migrated to these land and mixed there culture with other therefore becoming a part of the ethnogenesis and cultural identity of these country (Arab-Berber Maghrebi culture group,Arab-Levantine cultural group...)
3.others that dose not belong tho categories 1 or 2 like Black people,Jews,Armenian... or others ethnic minority (in most case) in mena country
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my first example i will us is the one I'm more familiar/know more about about the Maghreb case of the pan-arabist vs berberist now let's see what historian or travelers have to about modern ethnogenesis of the region:
first here is a book about the regency of Algiers (somewhat Algeria or at least part of it before the African colonization/independence)
(source https://cutt.ly/3rVGikd) in the book we have the tree categories first the natives (first categories) two the arabs (second categories) three the others (third categories)
1."people The people of this northern portion of who deserve the most attention are the Kabyles"
2.The Arabs inhabit the plains of this kingdom they live in tents and are constantly changing their positions according to the seasons and abundance of pasturage Their manners are purely pastoral and they probably possess both the virtues and the vices of their Asiatic ancestors
3."The Moors then the great majority of the population of this kingdom are a factitious race from the ancient Africans the Arabs emigrants from Spain" "The Jews of whom there are about five thousand in this city have the free exercise of their religion"
here is a book about morocco in the 1800
(source: https://cutt.ly/VrVH64t)
1."There are the Berbers, a race of of wandering shepherds the descendants of the ancient Libyan,who are supposed to be been the primitive inhabitants of the country"
2."There are the wandering Arabs of the plains"
3."The Moors are the inhabitants of towns and cities" "the Jews, who also confine themselves entirely tho the cities"
again we have a exact/same case with first the Berbers natives (categories one) then the ethnic arabs categories two and last the jews and moors (middle age Andalusian) (third categories)
now a book about egypt (source:https://cutt.ly/KrVXEVK)
1.in the following brief memoir The Copts at present compose less than one fourteenth part of the population of Egypt their number being not more than about a hundred and fifty thousand About ten thousand of them reside in the metropolis In some parts of Upper Egypt are villages exclusively inhabited by persons of this race and the district called the Feiyoo m particularly abounds with them The vast number of ruined convents and churches existing in various parts of Egypt shows that the Copts were very numerous a few centuries ago but every year many of them have embraced the Mohhammadan faith and become intermixed by marriage with Moos lims and thus the number of genuine and Christian Copts has been reduced to its present small amount The Copts are undoubtedly descendants of the ancient.
2.none of the Arab tribes surpassed in power courage hospitality and other virtues for which the Arabs of the Desert are so famous.
3.in the present work There are in this country about five thousand Jews
in this case we also have the tree categories first copts (both christian and Muslim) two the arabs and tree the jews
here is an book about Syria (https://cutt.ly/urVKdCs)
1."I Population Ethnographically the population of Syria consists of Syrians* Greeks*³ Arabs*² Turks*³ Jews*³ and Franks*³"
again we have the same case first natives Syrians (Aramaic ?) (categories one) then Arabs (categories two) then third parties minority (Greek,Turks...) (categories three)
*²=ethnic Arabs categories
*³=minority categories
so my conclusion of this first tread message is than dna test if they want to add up with with the witness of the travelers in some mena country should represent the three categories than i posted up of my tread with
first the natives component (Berbers,Copts,Armeans,kurds...) then the second categories people with ethnic Arabs ancestry outside the Arabian peninsula (hilalians/maqil in the Maghreb,Rashaida in Egypt,ghassanids in Lebanon....) and finally the third categories/others (black people in mena country,Jewish,Armenian,Maghrebi with Andalusian/Iberian ancestry...) if not that mean the travelers documenting use about these land where in the error and a case can be made than dna test didn't exist at that time so they might in error confirmed by dna test
and sorry for my english
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