Post Vahaduo "Eurogenes K13 updated" results

[Nurzat]

it seems I get the newly added German samples (K13 updated on vahaduo)

when running it with the entire population list in the source:

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 0.5578% / 0.55777483
33.4 German_East_Prussia_Memelland
21.3 German_Bavarian_Swabia
13.0 Greek_Northern_Thrace
9.6 Balkar
8.4 Greek_Western_Thrace
4.4 Sardinian
3.1 German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow)
2.7 Lemko_Poland
1.3 Turkish_East-Black_Sea
0.7 Abhkaz
0.4 Burusho
0.4 Tujia
0.4 Turkmen_Afghanistan
0.3 Nogai
0.3 Pashtun_Pakistan
0.3 Yoruban


when running it on "reduce to 4 pops" without any Balkan populations (except for Romania Moldova South):

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.9575% / 1.95752100 | R4P
62.9 Lemko_Poland
21.8 German_Bavarian_Swabia
9.1 Georgian_Imereti
6.2 Tatar_Crimea


when running it with these 4 populations only:

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 2.2252% / 2.22520789
49.4 Ukrainian_Carpathians
23.5 German_Bavarian_Swabia
16.4 Romanian_South-Moldavia
10.7 Balkar


eh?

Spoiler!

[Mr.G]

it seems I get the newly added German samples (K13 updated on vahaduo)

The algorithm is trying to achieve the lowest distance, so it's grabbing what is available at the extremes. If you plot just a little west of the average for your ethnicity/regions (even though there is a normal variation/range in people with deep, unmixed ancestry from a given region) the modeling will be such that to compensate for your westward shift from the average, you get some German assigned that you do not really have.

Also, many of the German regions are showing some degree of Eastern/Southern and/or Slavic shift, maybe more than what people would think when they think of a German.

Or maybe you actually have German ancestry that you are unaware of

[Nurzat]

The algorithm is trying to achieve the lowest distance, so it's grabbing what is available at the extremes. If you plot just a little west of the average for your ethnicity/regions (even though there is a normal variation/range in people with deep, unmixed ancestry from a given region) the modeling will be such that to compensate for your westward shift from the average, you get some German assigned that you do not really have.

Also, many of the German regions are showing some degree of Eastern/Southern and/or Slavic shift, maybe more than what people would think when they think of a German.

Or maybe you actually have German ancestry that you are unaware of

one thing is sure: if I model with my ancestry, i.e. Romania_Moldova_South and Ukraine_Carpathians I get around half-half (55% to 45%) and distance 4, while adding a Western population like German or Dutch and a northern Caucasus population (Balkars best) will bring fit to 2 (shown in that post).

I cannot rely much on PCA's as I am a mix of two populations that are marginal for their bigger ethnic group, so I will fall approx halfway between two points hard to estimate.

dunno if German but something must drag my dad to Northwest and something Caucasus-like must drag my mom a bit more to Southeast. so funnily these extra influences probably neutralize each other on a PCA, as they're opposite (though Western signal seems 2/3 and Caucasus 1/3)

[Mr.G]

one thing is sure: if I model with my ancestry, i.e. Romania_Moldova_South and Ukraine_Carpathians I get around half-half (55% to 45%) and distance 4, while adding a Western population like German or Dutch and a northern Caucasus population (Balkars best) will bring fit to 2 (shown in that post).

I cannot rely much on PCA's as I am a mix of two populations that are marginal for their bigger ethnic group, so I will fall approx halfway between two points hard to estimate

dunno if German but something must drag my dad to Northwest and something Caucasus-like must drag my mom a bit more to Southeast. so funnily these extra influences probably neutralize each other on a PCA, as they're opposite (though Western signal seems 2/3 and Caucasus 1/3)

Sometimes closer distance does not mean more accuracy, that's my observation anyway. I can certainly relate to your 'fall between two points woes'.

[Dušan]

Reposting my updated 2-way model, with very Slavic sample German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow).

Distance to:	Dušan
2.99684634	60.00% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 40.00% Greek_Central_Macedonia
3.15036793	62.40% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 37.60% Greek_Eastern_Thrace
3.15255447	47.80% Russian_Tver-Yaroslavl + 52.20% Torbesh
3.22959276	66.00% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 34.00% Greek_Athens
3.26174619	48.80% Gagauz + 51.20% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow)
3.26749765	63.00% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 37.00% Greek_Peloponnese
3.27490210	53.20% Albanian_Gheg + 46.80% Russian_Tver-Yaroslavl
3.28290686	65.40% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 34.60% Greek_Central
3.29547691	58.80% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 41.20% Torbesh
3.30894402	60.60% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 39.40% Greek_Eastern_Macedonia
3.32614797	62.20% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 37.80% Greek_Western
3.33168204	42.20% Albanian_Gheg + 57.80% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow)
3.37087127	52.00% Bulgarian_Southcentral + 48.00% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow)
3.39539371	45.40% German_East_Prussia_Memelland + 54.60% Greek_Central_Macedonia
3.40265402	40.80% Albanian + 59.20% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow)
3.40313615	71.40% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 28.60% Greek_North_Aegean
3.41701210	42.80% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 57.20% Romanian_Dobruja
3.41782023	74.60% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 25.40% Greek_Symi
3.42376172	68.40% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 31.60% Greek_Ionia
3.43945279	52.00% Albanian + 48.00% Russian_Tver-Yaroslavl
3.45853400	60.20% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 39.80% Greek_Thessaly
3.46017343	55.60% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 44.40% North_Macedonian_South
3.46388139	54.40% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 45.60% Greek_Northern_Thrace
3.46978529	58.80% Bulgarian_Northwestern + 41.20% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow)
3.48561544	70.00% German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow) + 30.00% Italian_Sicily

Distance to: German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow)
4.02705848 Polish_Silesia
4.49426301 Ukrainian_South
4.70443408 Ukrainian
4.78989561 Ukrainian_Northwest
4.88253008 Polish_Mazovia

[catgeorge]

Target: catgeorge
Distance: 0.5399% / 0.53991736
47.7 Greek_Western
15.1 German_Rhineland-Palatinate_East_of_Rhine
10.6 Greek_Eastern_Macedonia
9.0 Greek_Istanbul
7.6 Greek_Trabzon
2.9 Italian_Marche
2.6 German_Bavarian_Swabia
1.4 Greek_North_Aegean
0.1 Cypriot_Greek

Very North biased calculator

[catgeorge]

Im not 70% Greek and 30% German try again


Distance to: Sarakatsani
1.24121499 34.20% German_County_Glatz + 65.80% Greek_North_Aegean
1.32379636 35.80% German_West_Bohemia + 64.20% Greek_Crete
1.38671289 21.80% German_Brandenburg_Northwest + 78.20% Greek_Ionia
1.44920590 25.20% German_North_Moravia + 74.80% Greek_Ionia
1.47474584 36.40% Austrian + 63.60% Greek_Crete
1.48519369 21.20% German_Hither_Pomerania + 78.80% Greek_Ionia
1.49708961 20.40% German_Mecklenburg_West + 79.60% Greek_Ionia
1.51242143 32.40% German_Saxony + 67.60% Greek_North_Aegean
1.52899335 27.40% German_West_Bohemia + 72.60% Greek_Ionia
1.56091574 31.80% German + 68.20% Greek_Crete
1.57331986 53.60% Bulgarian_Northeastern + 46.40% Italian_Basilicata
1.57666503 23.80% German + 76.20% Greek_Ionia
1.57940711 24.60% German_Saxony + 75.40% Greek_Ionia
1.59684102 35.00% Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria + 65.00% Greek_Crete
1.60263481 37.80% German_Thuringia_Central + 62.20% Greek_Chios
1.60708651 33.20% German_North_Moravia + 66.80% Greek_Crete
1.62606196 52.80% Bulgarian_Northeastern + 47.20% Italian_Abruzzo
1.64074311 27.80% Austrian + 72.20% Greek_Ionia
1.64474591 29.00% German_Brandenburg_Northwest + 71.00% Greek_North_Aegean
1.65178442 26.80% Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria + 73.20% Greek_Ionia
1.67125905 34.80% German_Bavaria_Oberpfalz + 65.20% Greek_Crete
1.67598649 34.40% German_Bavaria_Lower/Middle_Franconia + 65.60% Greek_Crete
1.67789118 36.80% German_North_Bohemia + 63.20% Greek_Chios
1.68052873 36.60% Austrian_Lower_Austria + 63.40% Greek_Crete
1.69176564 40.60% German_West_Bohemia + 59.40% Greek_Chios

[Dušan]

Again about Beeskow sample.
Sorry Rothaer, but it is interesting.

Beeskow sample in K13 model - Ancient K4 for Central/Eastern Europe and Balkans (Feiichy & Andre)
https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-anc...CE_Balkans.htm



Target: German_Brandenburg_Outlier(Beeskow)
Distance: 2.0866% / 2.08658446
93.4 Slavic
6.6 Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman
0.0 Germanic
0.0 Turkic

It doesnt have proto-Germanic admixture at all.

[17571imre]

hmmm intresting how German Bavarian Swabia poped up

Distance to: Imre
4.50358746 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
5.25846936 German_Bavarian_Swabia
6.08092098 Bosniak_Krajina_West
6.25930507 Romanian_Maramureş
6.27847115 Csángó-Ceangău
6.55165628 Croat_Istria
6.78466654 Serb_West
7.07238998 Romanian_Crişana
7.29560141 Croat_Lika
7.30017808 Croat_Kvarner
7.30967168 Serb_Croatia
7.33955039 Croat_Dalmatia
7.50649052 Serb_Vojvodina
7.55955025 Austrian
7.63197877 Hungarian
7.64976470 Serb
7.65505062 Serb_Central
7.68832882 Croat_GorskiKotar
7.77841243 Croat_Bosnia
7.79744189 Croat
7.84639408 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
7.94514317 Austrian_Burgenland
7.98072678 Hungarian_Alföld
8.05070804 Bosniak_Southeast
8.09670303 Serb_Herzegovina

[Mr.G]

My family, using the latest sheet:

Distance to: Mr.G
2.32725160 Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria
2.53061257 German_Bavaria_Oberpfalz
3.33713949 Austrian
3.45010145 German_North_Moravia
3.58132657 German_West_Bohemia
3.71818504 German_Bavaria_Lower/Middle_Franconia
3.75934835 German_Bavaria_Proper
4.56284999 Austrian_Burgenland
4.67980502 Austrian_Lower_Austria
5.03232551 German
5.11993164 German_Baden-Württemberg
5.14401594 French_Alsace
5.31820458 German_Thuringia_Central
5.61592379 German_Saxony
5.87980442 Swiss_German
6.38748777 German_North_Bohemia
6.49756108 German_South_Hesse
6.79789673 German_County_Glatz
6.84639321 German_North_Rhine
7.31471120 German_North_Hesse
7.47395478 German_Saxony-Anhalt_South
7.48429021 German_Thuringia_East
7.54864226 German_Bavarian_Swabia
7.63193291 Austrian_Styria
7.64650247 Austrian_Tyrol

Distance to: Mr.G_father
4.99431677 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
5.17198221 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
5.39653593 Hungarian
5.43182290 Csángó-Ceangău
5.56146563 Croat_GorskiKotar
5.99798299 Austrian_Styria
6.17911806 Hungarian_Alföld
6.36637259 Austrian
6.43745291 Austrian_Carinthia
6.71704548 Croat_Kvarner
7.21386859 Croat_Central
7.22538580 German_County_Glatz
7.26373182 Croat
7.29390842 Slovene
7.45068453 Croat_Lika
7.56339210 Croat_Northwest
7.56812394 Croat_Istria
7.61560241 German_Bavarian_Swabia
7.71588621 German_West_Bohemia
7.83182610 Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria
7.84258248 Bosniak_Krajina_West
8.02199476 Austrian_Burgenland
8.04239392 Croat_Dalmatia
8.08107666 Romanian_Maramureş
8.13279780 Hungarian_North

Distance to: Mr.G_mother
2.07708931 Flemish
2.49387249 Belgian
2.60931025 Dutch_South
2.69273096 German_Rhineland-Palatinate_East_of_Rhine
3.80889748 German_North_Rhine
4.12498485 French_Normandy
4.61559314 English_Southeast
4.73213482 German_Bavaria_Lower/Middle_Franconia
4.75646928 German_North_Hesse
5.27050282 French_Northeast
5.31379337 English_Midlands
5.38855268 German
5.55585277 English
5.63426126 Dutch
5.73979094 German_North_Moravia
5.77093580 German_South_Hesse
5.84968375 French_Brittany
5.92307353 German_Lower_Saxony_South
5.99088474 German_Baden-Württemberg
6.11247086 German_Westphalia
6.16031655 English_Southwest
6.19863695 French_Alsace
6.44280995 Dutch_Central
6.45063563 German_Saarland
6.50529015 English_North