Are Northern Italian genetically closer to Iberians than southern Italians?

[Samnium]

1-5% is recent. The Spanish influence on Milan and other parts of the North ended in the 1700's, with the nobility small amount of mixing from trade and the end the creation of the republic that is a fair number, similar to the impact of Normans on various regions.

I don't know any Spaniard coming in Emilia, or in the remote villages of Liguria. Neither on Alpine areas.

Romans had a limited impact in French genetics, and they were 600 000. Far more than any spaniard in Northern Italy.

Southern Italians have significant Levantine influence in phenotype, while most Iberians vary little from Occitan people in facial structure, just being darker.

"have significant Levantine influence in phenotype" the average southern Italian doesn't look Levantine stop spreading "bullshit" and lies.

I bet you've never been in Southern Italy.

There are some types that are rather passable in Levant, and only in Lebanon. It's a general "East Med" look.

Southern Italians that look like textbook Jews, Arabians, North-Africans or SSA-admixed are a rarity.

[PaleoEuropean]

Even if it was true (it's not, but whatever), 5% of recent ancestry would be impossible to shift the whole North Italian cluster towards Iberia.

I never said it was major, I said it was important. I also said it was nowhere near a majority of their genetic makeup, I used the word ethnic deliberately.

[Cernunnos]

LOL

Stop commenting on Italian genetics, dude. You know absolutely nothing on the subject. Northern Italians have 0% actual Spanish ancestry. They cluster together due to a similar ratio of components.

That post is even wrong historicaly, I think Spaniards only had a possession in the Milan Duchy due to lucky Charles V heiring the Spanish Throne and the Habsburg one, if anything Spaniards (and before Spain, the Aragonese) controlled all Southern Italy including Sicily, from the late 13th century to 1716 (when the Habsburgs seized to be Kings of Spain, starting the Spanish Bourbon dynasty). If anything it's the Southern Italians who have a few drops of Spaniard blood in them, and there's architectural and cultural legacy from Spain aswell.

[PaleoEuropean]

I don't know any Spaniard coming in Emilia, or in the remote villages of Liguria. Neither on Alpine areas.

Romans had a limited impact in French genetics, and they were 600 000. Far more than any spaniard in Northern Italy.

comparing ancient occupation to contemporary monarchical rule is like comparing apples and oranges though. Spain heavily invested into Milan and many people moved back and forth.

[Avicii86]

That post is even wrong historicaly, I think Spaniards only had a possession in the Milan Duchy due to lucky Charles V heiring the Spanish Throne and the Habsburg one, if anything Spaniards (and before Spain, the Aragonese) controlled all Southern Italy including Sicily, from the late 13th century to 1716 (when the Habsburgs seized to be Kings of Spain, starting the Spanish Bourbon dynasty). If anything it's the Southern Italians who have a few drops of Spaniard blood in them, and there's architectural and cultural legacy from Spain aswell.

I’ve noticed most Italians, north and south, have Spanish blood. Northerners just seem to have more of it.

[Token]

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Thanks. It is impressive how Iberians, North Italians and Southern French overlap so much.

[Samnium]

Thanks. It is impressive how Iberians, North Italians and Southern French overlap so much.

Southwestern people.

[Cernunnos]

I never said it was major, I said it was important. I also said it was nowhere near a majority of their genetic makeup, I used the word ethnic deliberately.

Spaniards only dominated the duchy of Milan, and for barely 200 years. And it was not a conquest like the Aragonese conquest of Southern Italy (plus Sardinia and Sicily) which due to the union with Castille and Aragon in 1479 paving the way for the creation of the Kingdom of Spain (1513), was annexed to the Spanish kingdom until the Habsburgs got kicked out of Spain. It's Southern Italy who has a few hints of Spaniard influence (dunno if it shows in genetices)

Stop spreading lies and historical half truths.

[Samnium]

comparing ancient occupation to contemporary monarchical rule is like comparing apples and oranges though. Spain heavily invested into Milan and many people moved back and forth.

You are talking about some merchants that went to Milan, and then you use this example as a proof that the whole Northern Italy has "5% recent iberian admixture".

Not only there isn't any account of a global migration of spaniards all over Northern Italy historically but you don't see that in 23andme results, where you would see recent ancestors, same with other companies.

Spaniards only dominated the duchy of Milan, and for barely 200 years. And it was not a conquest like the Aragonese conquest of Southern Italy (plus Sardinia and Sicily) which due to the union with Castille and Aragon in 1479 paving the way for the creation of the Kingdom of Spain (1513), was annexed to the Spanish kingdom until the Habsburgs got kicked out of Spain. It's Southern Italy who has a few hints of Spaniard influence (dunno if it shows in genetices)

Stop spreading lies and historical half truths.

Iberian influence show up in Southern Italian 23andme, and I believe also in Gedmatch results for some people.

[Peterski]

Iberians are much closer to North Italians than to South Italians.

And this despite the supposed Roman admixture in Iberia (as detected by Olalde 2019) which should supposedly be South Italian-like if it was Imperial Roman?