Bronze Age Sicilians looked nothing like present-day Sicilians

[Lucas]

Samples are available? Where?

As bams. https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB35094

[dududud]

As bams. https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB35094

Ah yes, these famous samples! I have already posted the results I had obtained on different calculators. Interesting.

[Lucas]

Ah yes, these famous samples! I have already posted the results I had obtained on different calculators. Interesting.

Really? But it was published today.

[dududud]

Really? But it was published today.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...Nuragh-results

[catgeorge]

All our neighbours have Mycenean affinity except Turkey. Full east med is unlikely - EEF + CHG + some steppe.

[Samnium]

According to this paper the pre-Iron Age Sicilians disappeared completely. I think it's more than enough to suppose that Greek migrations were the starting point of all the change.

Without any sample of that era it's supposition and supposition, Sicily had three main groups in the Iron Age era, including Elymians and Sicanians and we have no clue about what they were genetically. I would rather be favorable to that option rather than a massive "easternization" by "greek source", because it's rather incoherent with the genetical make-up of Southern Italy.

I did not even said most, just that ''many'' were and it's true.

"Many", not true. Most of greek colonies in Southern Italy were from Mainland/Ionian Islands, even the most important cities : Rheggion, Kroton, Syracusa, Sybaris and so on were founded by Acheans from the mainland peninsula.

People in these forums assume to much without looking at how Greeks themselves viewed these things: someone from Miletus or Pontus was as ''ethnic Greek'' as someone from Athens. Isocrates once said that ''are called Greeks those who participate in our education (paideia) rather than only those who belong to a common race (ethnos)''.

I can assure you that most of Greek colonies in Southern Italy weren't from Greek Anatolia or whatever.

Ethnic greek could mean everything in that era, even assimilated Levantines, but I'm talking about people coming from Mainland Greece (that looked like Myceneans/Minoans genetically probably).

[Voskos]

Phoenicians and Arab era had a huge impact on Sicilian genetics. The areas that are the less greek are also the most outlying, it can be explained with the "Aegean" theory. There are villages in inner Sicily that had never seen any greek. And that were isolated as one can get, yet they are still outlying.

It's possibly because of autochtonous populations being already East Med-like.

Elymians, Sicanians, SIcels, Phoenicians. Add to that Roman Anatolians that weren't necessarily Greek-speaking. According to our brazilian members those were all Greek.

[Leto]

This is also very interesting:



The myth that Sardinians are living relics is starting to crumble.

Oh yeah, you love that "myth busting". The truth is they are still fairly distinct from both mainland Italy and Spain.

[dududud]

Oh yeah, you love that "myth busting". The truth is they are still fairly distinct from both mainland Italy and Spain.

24 samples of "Sardinian" can not conclude anything. I therefore strongly doubt that this myth falls against 24 small samples.

[Samnium]

Elymians, Sicanians, SIcels, Phoenicians. Add to that Roman Anatolians that weren't necessarily Greek-speaking. According to our brazilian members those were all Greek.

Yes we have no clue about what Elymians and Sicanians were. Sicels are thought to be Italic people but I think they crossed the Reggio Calabria strait in few numbers hence low R1b in Sicily compared to Western that had received at some point some Northern Italian input in the Middle Ages (aside of Norman).

I really don't buy that theory of the "whole" easternization of Southern Italy by greeks, not only it's an over-simplified model but also it's rather unreconciliable with history. Greek cities weren't the cosmopolite bordel of Roman one also.