Why didn't the Romanians get fully Slavicized linguistically?

[ixulescu]

At least a quarter of the basic spoken Romanian lexis is based on common Slavic roots such as: a iubi "to love", a citi "to read", glas "voice", nevoie "need", cinstit "honest", prieten "friend", trebuie "necessary". This situation is akin to the number and usage of French borrowings in English. Slavic borrowings are especially frequent when strong emotional terms or feelings are involved: silă "compulsion", vină "guilt", jale "sorrow", milă "compassion", boală "illness, disease", iubire "love", dragoste "love", slavă "glory", nădejde "hope", etc. Slavic-derived adjectives and participles seem to have been borrowed in droves and form a whole lexical layer: slab, drag, bolnav, bogat, prost, drăgúţ, cinstit, iscusit, iubit, jalnic, zadarnic, vrednic, obraznic, voinic, groaznic, harnic, straşnic, darnic, milostiv, mucenic, etc.

This sort of sloppiness puts us in trouble. No research has found that more than 25% of the basic Romanian vocabulary is of Slavic origin. The estimates I found range from 5 to 13%. The discrepancy comes from the disagreement on what constitutes the basic vocabulary, but for certain 25% Slavic words in the basic vocabulary is nonsense.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Several people here made good arguments with which I agree.

My take is that we probably would've spoken Bulgarian now (and some maybe Polish or Ukrainian in the north and east) if the Mongols didn't ravage what is now Moldova and Wallachia and if right after, the Turks didn't beat the Bulgarians. The regions were absolutely populated (sparsely or not) with people that were speaking different languages, but what is clear is that probably Bulgarian and old Romanian were the main ones. Retreats into Transylvania have brought further influx of this Old Romanian mixed with Bulgarian into Ardeal, but after the Mongols and the Turks, a power void appeared in Wallachia-Moldova that could not be filled by Bulgarian rule. Eventually, a Romanian military and cultural elite re-established order and marked Wallachia and Moldova as Romanian-speaking countries. The peoples that were still there were eventually absorbed and any other language eventually died out.

To make an extra point in my first statement, Transylvania probably would've remained the only place where Romanian was spoken, if Bulgaria faced peace and opportunity to keep claim to Wallachian and Moldovan lands.

[Nurzat]

This sort of sloppiness puts us in trouble. No research has found that more than 25% of the basic Romanian vocabulary is of Slavic origin. The estimates I found range from 5 to 13%. The discrepancy comes from the disagreement on what constitutes the basic vocabulary, but for certain 25% Slavic words in the basic vocabulary is nonsense.

how come Vaslui countryside people say hrincî to slice of bread (Ukr. hrinka), oghial to blanket (Rus. odyalo), zămnic to cellar (Ukr. zemlya „earth”), chișleag to homemade yogurt (Ukr. kislyak), chirpiși to bricks (Rus. kirpichi), harbuz to watermelon (Rus. arbuz from Turkic, ok, but why only Moldova region says it like that and not the south, who was more Turkic - because word came from the East most probably and many Turkic words came into Moldova from Slavic imo, because other regions in Romania that were under Turks don t use them). and there s a whole lot of such words that were wiped out of Moldovan language by Romanianization, you can only hear the peasants use them in some places. when I read Ion Creangî I don t need the glossary because those words are still in use in my mom s village and I know them and they re mostly East Slavic in origin.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

how come Vaslui countryside people say hrincî to slice of bread (Ukr. hrinka), oghial to blanket (Rus. odyalo), zămnic to cellar (Ukr. zemlya „earth”), chișleag to homemade yogurt (Ukr. kislyak), chirpiși to bricks (Rus. kirpichi), harbuz to watermelon (Rus. arbuz from Turkic, ok, but why only Moldova region says it like that and not the south, who was more Turkic - because word came from the East most probably and many Turkic words came into Moldova from Slavic imo, because other regions in Romania that were under Turks don t use them). and there s a whole lot of such words that were wiped out of Moldovan language by Romanianization, you can only hear the peasants use them in some places. when I read Ion Creangî I don t need the glossary because those words are still in use in my mom s village and I know them and they re mostly East Slavic in origin.

Zămnic comes from Bulgarian Zemnik, but the ”earth” root is the same. Also some of my Hungarian friends and even Romanians from Ardeal said that reading Ion Creangă was a challenge and had to ask their teacher constantly what some words meant.

[ixulescu]

how come Vaslui countryside people say hrincî to slice of bread (Ukr. hrinka), oghial to blanket (Rus. odyalo), zămnic to cellar (Ukr. zemlya „earth”), chișleag to homemade yogurt (Ukr. kislyak), chirpiși to bricks (Rus. kirpichi), harbuz to watermelon (Rus. arbuz from Turkic, ok, but why only Moldova region says it like that and not the south, who was more Turkic - because word came from the East most probably and many Turkic words came into Moldova from Slavic imo, because other regions in Romania that were under Turks don t use them). and there s a whole lot of such words that were wiped out of Moldovan language by Romanianization, you can only hear the peasants use them in some places. when I read Ion Creangî I don t need the glossary because those words are still in use in my mom s village and I know them and they re mostly East Slavic in origin.

I've never heard of hrinci, oghial and zamnic, these are not words in common use all over Moldova.
I heard the other ones (harbuz, chirpici and chisleag)

[ixulescu]

Several people here made good arguments with which I agree.

My take is that we probably would've spoken Bulgarian now (and some maybe Polish or Ukrainian in the north and east) if the Mongols didn't ravage what is now Moldova and Wallachia and if right after, the Turks didn't beat the Bulgarians. The regions were absolutely populated (sparsely or not) with people that were speaking different languages, but what is clear is that probably Bulgarian and old Romanian were the main ones. Retreats into Transylvania have brought further influx of this Old Romanian mixed with Bulgarian into Ardeal, but after the Mongols and the Turks, a power void appeared in Wallachia-Moldova that could not be filled by Bulgarian rule. Eventually, a Romanian military and cultural elite re-established order and marked Wallachia and Moldova as Romanian-speaking countries. The peoples that were still there were eventually absorbed and any other language eventually died out.

To make an extra point in my first statement, Transylvania probably would've remained the only place where Romanian was spoken, if Bulgaria faced peace and opportunity to keep claim to Wallachian and Moldovan lands.

I agree with most of this.

But it's worth pointing out that the adoption of a Slavic language in Bulgaria was also an unlikely event, because Slavs were not the majority there either. It helped that native Balkanites in that region were split into Latin and Greek speakers and no linguistic group had the absolute majority. Tatar Bulgars had to consolidate the Slavic state first at home before trying to expand it. Once consolidation was achieved in Bulgaria it was easier to expand (culturally but also politically) towards Serbia, because Serbia had a higher proportion of Slavic speakers than Wallachia. This is why Romance speakers in Wallachia and Transylvania had more time to assimilate the migrating Slavs.

[Nurzat]

I've never heard of hrinci, oghial and zamnic, these are not words in common use all over Moldova.
I heard the other ones (harbuz, chirpici and chisleag)

because it's pockets of Moldova that kept the more archaic forms, and it's not only Vaslui, but Botosani and parts of Neamt too, also parts of Galati. the point is this was spoken all over Moldova not long time ago but with Romanian schooling and Moldovan/rural-shaming it was lost and it will die out in the villages still speaking it as well. annexation of Moldova brought a cultural genocide of Moldovan language and identity so spare us of imperialistic colonial Romanian propaganda. we can all agree Moldovans in Romania got Romanianized but at least respect the fact they were another nation not long ago and pockets of Moldova kept it to this day, unfortunately only the poorest villages that cannot do much with it, can they

[ixulescu]

because it's pockets of Moldova that kept the more archaic forms, and it's not only Vaslui, but Botosani and parts of Neamt too, also parts of Galati. the point is this was spoken all over Moldova not long time ago but with Romanian schooling it was lost and it will die out in the villages still speaking it as well. annexation of Moldova brought a cultural genocide of Moldovan language and identity so spare us of imperialistic colonial Romanian propaganda.

haha talk about paranoia

I used to spend summers as a child in Moldovan villages, I know very well how people spoke there. I was returning home with a thick accent

[artsi]

how come Vaslui countryside people say hrincî to slice of bread (Ukr. hrinka), oghial to blanket (Rus. odyalo), zămnic to cellar (Ukr. zemlya „earth”), chișleag to homemade yogurt (Ukr. kislyak), chirpiși to bricks (Rus. kirpichi), harbuz to watermelon (Rus. arbuz from Turkic, ok, but why only Moldova region says it like that and not the south, who was more Turkic - because word came from the East most probably and many Turkic words came into Moldova from Slavic imo, because other regions in Romania that were under Turks don t use them). and there s a whole lot of such words that were wiped out of Moldovan language by Romanianization, you can only hear the peasants use them in some places. when I read Ion Creangî I don t need the glossary because those words are still in use in my mom s village and I know them and they re mostly East Slavic in origin.

Some of those words must be regional even for Moldavian as I think I know my Moldavian and never heard of zămnic and I remember the word hrincă from the writings of Ion Creangă. Chirpici and harbuz are not Slavic. The serfs in Moldova were Malo Russians and Hungarians. Most of them Malo Russians. That is well documented. A lot of the villages were boyar property and the peasants were serfs. That's why Moldovans of today are more related genetically with Ukrainians from Podolia and Galitia than with Walahians or Transilvanians. In some villages in Vaslui the liver is called „mai”, a world of Hungarian origin. When it's cooked it's called măiuț. There is a habit that is in Moldavia to use diminutives for foods. There is also a dish there called Plăcintă de mai meaning Liver pie, made out of pork meat, liver and vegetables.

[Dick]

This sort of sloppiness puts us in trouble. No research has found that more than 25% of the basic Romanian vocabulary is of Slavic origin. The estimates I found range from 5 to 13%. The discrepancy comes from the disagreement on what constitutes the basic vocabulary, but for certain 25% Slavic words in the basic vocabulary is nonsense.

I see there’s a town called Targoviste on that map crn vlach posted. It means market place in Slavic