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Thread: Why do most latin americans have MENA DNA but most Spainards have hardly any?

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    It's jew sephardi the majory of the time... at least in México's case

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    Some Spaniards do show some North African on their reports, it's very minimal though, as with Latin Americans.

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    While mine is directly related to Moriscos (because surname) from Morocco (or any other NA country anyway), Brazil had a Sephardi immigration from Morocco from 1810 and beyond. In fact, they moved to many places, including Amazon cities like Belém or Manaus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    They did it though, there were some persecuted in the American Inquisitions. Most Jews and Moriscos paid smugglers to get them there, Jews had a lot easier time though especially wealthy ones that already had some pull with the crown, the Jews smuggled most of the Moriscos out that left. It was hard for them to leave but before the Catholic institution really took root, they had a lot of freedom, a lot of Jews left for U.S or more lawless territories. most Moriscos were already in fairly lawless areas. Moriscos even participated in the Bolivarian Revolution.

    "According to Liebman, as early as 1508, bishops in Havana and Puerto Rico informed Madrid that the New World was being filled with hebreo cristianos (Hebrew Christians), nuevo cristianos (New Christians), conversos (converts), Moriscos (Moors), and other heretics, in spite of several decrees barring their entry. Silvio Zavala wrote: "The Holy Office in Spanish America persecuted the apostates, Moriscos, Jews, Protestants and, in general, heretics."
    http://sefarad.org/lm/037/6.html
    Yes obviously some succeeded to reach America but their number was very small compared to the jews or christians and most of them seeked refuge in the maghreb or the middle east I doubt it can explain most of the NA admixture found among modern south americans

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    Now I am lost, well I am learning. The headline says MENA. Mena is the equivalent of NA?
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY7449/
    E-V22 - E-BY7449 - E-BY7566 - E-FT155550
    According to oral family tradition E-FT155550 comes from a deserter of Napoleon's troops (1808-1813) who stayed in Spain and changed his surname.

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    In this Miami program, I think you can see that the origin of today's Latin Americans is not only Spanish, but later they were people from many other places in the world which also explain the results of current Latin Americans.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY7449/
    E-V22 - E-BY7449 - E-BY7566 - E-FT155550
    According to oral family tradition E-FT155550 comes from a deserter of Napoleon's troops (1808-1813) who stayed in Spain and changed his surname.

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    What everyone else said about those who arrived in the NW despite certain restrictions. It would explain why sometimes I see very MENA/Course Med among hispanics (particularly males) in my area.

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    I am not familiar with the average DNA of Sephardic Jews, but do they have significant North African ancestry? Do they tend to have some sort of Ashkenazi DNA show up? I have seen many Latinos have both North African and Ashkenazi show up in their DNA in percentages of over 2%.

    From the parish records from the village of my ancestors in Portugal I found that it was all Old Christians in the XVIII century, and they tended to marry among one another and to some extent with the inhabitants of two other villages that seemed to be only Old Christians. According to 23andme I have 0.5% North African DNA, but 0% Ashkenazi and Subsaharan African, would a Sephardic Jew show higher percentages of these?

    In my parents' village, going through parish records that marriages with individuals from the closest village were non-existent until the XIX century, and even after then, these were very few. After talking with my mother and some others, they said that the individuals from the neighboring village were looked down upon. They were called "rabinos" (rabbis) or "judeus" (Jews). This prejudice lasted well into the present day, despite most people in my parents' hometown not knowing exactly what those terms meant. In fact I remember older people referring to a thief or dishonest person as a "judeu", and had no idea that it was a real religion. I looked at some of the church records from that neighboring village and did see some old testament names in the XVII century records like Judith, Samuel and Ezekiel, which I imagined were of Jewish origin. In my parents village they all had names like John, Joseph, Mary, etc. One man from that "Jewish Village" told me that his grandparents would still refuse to work on Saturday and light candles on Friday nights, though they were ignorant of the origins of these traditions. If this prejudice lasted so long, I can only imagine how difficult it must have been to endure this under the threat of the inquisition during the XVII and XVIII centuries.

    We have to remember that the vast majority of Muslims in Iberia were not directly North African immigrants, but rather people who did convert to Islam because it often gave them some benefit. This was also the case throughout the Balkans under Ottoman Rule. I would be curious what the DNA of a Morisco from the XVI century would have looked like.

    Apparently so many of the early Spanish migrants to the colonies were New Christians, that when Hernan Cortes attempted to expel them from New Spain, they were found to be too numerous and their expulsion would have been detrimental. The same was true in Brazil where it appears that the majority of early European immigrants were New Christians. Remember the Inquisition was slower to establish itself in the New World.

    I know during the Union of the Crowns from 1580-1640, many New Christians left Portugal to Castile as merchants and from there or Brazil to Spanish America. In Buenos Aires these "Portuguese" were over half of the "blancos" in the small city during the early 1600s. They were particularly prominent smuggling slaves and silver out of Buenos Aires to bypass the Spanish Crown's official route through Cartagena. In Peru they were also numerous, that the ones whom became wealthy in mining were occasionally targeted by the inquisition, such as in 1639.

    In Cape Verde, many of the early settlers were New Christians as well, and I have seen Cape Verdeans get DNA results where Ashkenazi Jew shows up significantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriatus91 View Post
    I am not familiar with the average DNA of Sephardic Jews, but do they have significant North African ancestry? Do they tend to have some sort of Ashkenazi DNA show up? I have seen many Latinos have both North African and Ashkenazi show up in their DNA in percentages of over 2%.

    From the parish records from the village of my ancestors in Portugal I found that it was all Old Christians in the XVIII century, and they tended to marry among one another and to some extent with the inhabitants of two other villages that seemed to be only Old Christians. According to 23andme I have 0.5% North African DNA, but 0% Ashkenazi and Subsaharan African, would a Sephardic Jew show higher percentages of these?

    In my parents' village, going through parish records that marriages with individuals from the closest village were non-existent until the XIX century, and even after then, these were very few. After talking with my mother and some others, they said that the individuals from the neighboring village were looked down upon. They were called "rabinos" (rabbis) or "judeus" (Jews). This prejudice lasted well into the present day, despite most people in my parents' hometown not knowing exactly what those terms meant. In fact I remember older people referring to a thief or dishonest person as a "judeu", and had no idea that it was a real religion. I looked at some of the church records from that neighboring village and did see some old testament names in the XVII century records like Judith, Samuel and Ezekiel, which I imagined were of Jewish origin. In my parents village they all had names like John, Joseph, Mary, etc. One man from that "Jewish Village" told me that his grandparents would still refuse to work on Saturday and light candles on Friday nights, though they were ignorant of the origins of these traditions. If this prejudice lasted so long, I can only imagine how difficult it must have been to endure this under the threat of the inquisition during the XVII and XVIII centuries.

    We have to remember that the vast majority of Muslims in Iberia were not directly North African immigrants, but rather people who did convert to Islam because it often gave them some benefit. This was also the case throughout the Balkans under Ottoman Rule. I would be curious what the DNA of a Morisco from the XVI century would have looked like.

    Apparently so many of the early Spanish migrants to the colonies were New Christians, that when Hernan Cortes attempted to expel them from New Spain, they were found to be too numerous and their expulsion would have been detrimental. The same was true in Brazil where it appears that the majority of early European immigrants were New Christians. Remember the Inquisition was slower to establish itself in the New World.

    I know during the Union of the Crowns from 1580-1640, many New Christians left Portugal to Castile as merchants and from there or Brazil to Spanish America. In Buenos Aires these "Portuguese" were over half of the "blancos" in the small city during the early 1600s. They were particularly prominent smuggling slaves and silver out of Buenos Aires to bypass the Spanish Crown's official route through Cartagena. In Peru they were also numerous, that the ones whom became wealthy in mining were occasionally targeted by the inquisition, such as in 1639.

    In Cape Verde, many of the early settlers were New Christians as well, and I have seen Cape Verdeans get DNA results where Ashkenazi Jew shows up significantly.
    Maybe this can help you:

    PCA:



    Moriscos cluster close to modern day Iberians with a shift towards N. Africa.

    When we see their G25 results we can see the the following:



    We can conclude that Muslim Iberians were genetically wise 3/4 Iberian origins and 1/4 North African.

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    It would make sense that Moriscos are more Iberian than North African. It did seem that most were descended from those who converted after 711 and would form the ruling class. I imagine that they would have married with prominent arrivals from North Africa such as soldiers. I imagine the "moors" that did arrive from North Africa were overwhelmingly male.

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