Detailed specific formal study of IA populations affecting Iranics

[Zoro]

It would've been nice to include Iranians among the populations. Cool study.

I asked him to include a couple of Persians but he said he only had 2 Persian samples with 700,000 SNP overlap with the ancients but they were ambigous because they were classified as Persian migrants to Kuwait. The HGDP and 23andme and FTDNA and Ancestry Persian samples unfortunately don't have the required SNP overlap with these ancient samples and we wanted maximum accuracy.

[Zoro]

Turkmenistan-IA is very Iranic as you may have read in other places

Also notice the gap between Iranics and Estonians is small compared to the other charts I posted

[IMG][/IMG]

Compare the previously posted Turkmenistan-IA to this Sintashta-MLBA chart. I think the reason there is a bigger spread between Estonians and Iranics in the Sintashta chart is because whereas Turkmenistan-IA had BOTH Iranic and steppe admixture in decent quantities, Sintashta lacked the Iranic admixture putting it further from Iranics and increasing the spread between Estonians and Iranics.

These are some of the things that amateur calculators don't readily reveal just like variation between Armenians and Kurds when it comes to Central Asian admixture.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Zoro]

From all the charts I have Estonians are furthest away from Shahr-e-Sokhteh and BMAC. They are infact closer to even Pakistan-Barikot-IA probably because it had some steppe admixture whereas the other 2 didn't.

This one is for the least ASI Shahr-e-Sokhteh group. Here again we see substantial differences between Kurds and Armenians not accurately portrayed by amateur calculators.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Zoro]

This one is for the Pakistan-Barikot-IA group. Notice how close to max the Pak Balochi samples are. If a test sample were a close relative of the Barikot samples they would score about 1250.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Zoro]

The 5 highest quality Russian Alan samples. As expected N Ossetians show the highest relatedness to them followed by Kurds. The reason formal methods don't show E Europeans as high as amateur calculators is because they take into account relatedness due to very ancient alleles. Ancient EHG and WHG which are higher in Europeans than in W Asians increase relatedness to Sarmatians and Alans in amateur calculators but these ancestral SNPs are discounted using formal methods that's why you see a more accurate picture with formal methods.

These tests use 11 ancestral outgroups for this purpose. They are shown on page 1.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Zoro]

With respect to the relatedness to the higher quality 2 Sarmatian Kazakhstan samples N Ossetians and Kurmanji Kurds top the list and are shoulder to shoulder. However you'll see later that the gap between N Ossetians and Kurmanji Kurds grows a little with the 6 Alan samples. N Ossetians take the lead by a little.

I was surprised to see Armenians that far down.

[IMG][/IMG]

I just noticed something looking at the Sarmatian-Kazakhstan relatedness to the Alan relatedness chart. Armenian positons are quite different in the 2 charts. With the Sarmatian chart Kurd-Armenian spread is about 350 chi-squared but with the Alans chart the spread is only 80 chi squared.

I'm inclined to think that Alans have some sort of Anatolian/Kura-Araxes admixture that puts them closer to Armenians than Sarmatians are to Armenians or maybe Kazakh Sarmatians have more of the E Asian that puts them further away from Armenians. Feel free to comment.

Also notice the very different Estonian position in the Sarmatian vs Alan chart.

[Eline]

The reason formal methods don't show E Europeans as high as amateur calculators is because they take into account relatedness due to very ancient alleles. Ancient EHG and WHG which are higher in Europeans than in W Asians increase relatedness to Sarmatians and Alans in amateur calculators but these ancestral SNPs are discounted using formal methods that's why you see a more accurate picture with formal methods.

Please elaborate more. Why do you think EHG in Alans is ancient and why dont you discount ancient CHG? Doesnt make any sense.

[Eline]

Okay so Armenians are the real Kurds/Medes/Aryans according to MS85/Eline?

Not really.

I don't know how this strange calculators work. Something is wrong with it.


Ancient Iranians were much more related to Kurds than the Armenians. Ancient Iranians had much more 'Gedrosia' DNA in them.

That Hasanlu guy (F38) had 28,81 % Gedrosia. As much as modern Kurds. Armenians have much less of it.

[Kyp]

Not really.

I don't know how this strange calculators work. Something is wrong with it.


Ancient Iranians were much more related to Kurds than the Armenians. Ancient Iranians had much more 'Gedrosia' DNA in them.

That Hasanlu guy (F38) had 28,81 % Gedrosia. As much as modern Kurds. Armenians have much less of it.

Looks more like a mutt to me. Closeness to Kurds is probably just because you guys are mixed with Mesopotamians.

[Eline]

Looks more like a mutt to me. Closeness to Kurds is probably just because you guys are mixed with Mesopotamians.

Kurds are actually the very definition of the Northern Mesopotamians with some minor admixture from the Caucasus (Hurrians, Scythians etc.) and Southcentral Asia (Parthians).

Armenians are much more shifted toward the the Mediterranean Sea/Levant.