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    Senior Member -Scar-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brennus dux gallorum View Post
    Completely different, but still r1b, which means extremely closer in terms of very, very limited recent male ancestry than with anyone with other haplogroups (I, J etc) or even with R1a.

    As for the second, i wouldn't say so, what i am saying is that technically in the end the half English half Greek has a higher percentage of common DEEP ancestors with a southern French than with either English or Greeks, even though his RECENT ancestry is closer to either English or Greek.

    My point (or not at all"mine" but what genetics imply) is that ydna shows something very specific: a deep male ancestor, meanwhile autosomal dna shows the rest of your ancestors, so technically your whole racial background. You can be an r1b and at the same time an autosomally 99% African, but never an African because of your A or B or E Ydna when your autosomal Dna has nothing to do with Africa
    Y-DNA forms a very small percentage of overall DNA but they can provide good information about population movements. Simply take the R1b in Estrucans and Tuscans which clearly contradicts the hypothesis of Herodotus of Estrucans being of Anatolian stock. Simple take Albanians and Tuscans who are very close to each, this doesn't mean that we are historically related which is well confirmed by their Y DNA. Subclades are important too, the R1b in Basques, Irish and Northern Italians are not very similar.

    The genetic relationship tof Peloponessians with Abruzzes is not something ''recent'' but deep which is cause by northern allelles brought mostly during the Middle Ages, since Peloponnesians were much closer to Sicilians in the early Middle ages and due to significant northern allelles they plot north of Abruzzes and south of Albania. Even though if would be great to know the impact of Latin colonists in Peloponnese after Romans colonised Corinth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Scar- View Post
    Y-DNA forms a very small percentage of overall DNA but they can provide good information about population movements. Simply take the R1b in Estrucans and Tuscans which clearly contradicts the hypothesis of Herodotus of Estrucans being of Anatolian stock. Simple take Albanians and Tuscans who are very close to each, this doesn't mean that we are historically related which is well confirmed by their Y DNA. Subclades are important too, the R1b in Basques, Irish and Northern Italians are not very similar.
    Y-Dna can show things but still has more limitations

    In the case of Tuscany that you mentioned what y-Dna can show is that tuscans and Albanians have no recent historical relations, but they still share more common deep ancestors than with anyone else in Europe. These common ancestors are not historical like a Tuscan colonization in Albania or vice versa, but the result of several immigrations and admixture with different people who brought the same components (so the same ancestors) in these two places

    The genetic relationship tof Peloponessians with Abruzzes is not something ''recent'' but deep which is cause by northern allelles brought mostly during the Middle Ages, since Peloponnesians were much closer to Sicilians in the early Middle ages and due to significant northern allelles they plot north of Abruzzes and south of Albania. Even though if would be great to know the impact of Latin colonists in Peloponnese after Romans colonised Corinth.
    And that's exactly what i am saying. Yes maybe Sicilians and other populations share more recent or "historical" common ancestry with peloponnese, but if you go further deep in prehistory peloponnese shares a higher number of ancestors with abruzzo. Thats because people who during the middle ages brought northern components in the peloponnese shared a deep common ancestry with those who brought similar components to abruzzo in another period

    And the importance of autosomal dna compared to y Dna is visible in facial traits, as well as in many other aspects. For example if we went by ydna only, we would miss a huge extra Anatolian farmer impact in rhodes which doesn't exist, for example, in the peloponnese, as by ydna Rhodes are nearly the same or even more "European" than peloponnesians. At the same time there's nearly zero slavic ydna in peloponnese, but we can't say the same for autosomal
    Last edited by brennus dux gallorum; 04-02-2020 at 03:50 PM.

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    Senior Member -Scar-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brennus dux gallorum View Post
    Y-Dna can show things but still has more limitations

    In the case of Tuscany that you mentioned what y-Dna can show is that tuscans and Albanians have no recent historical relations, but they still share more common deep ancestors than with anyone else in Europe. These common ancestors are not historical like a Tuscan colonization in Albania or vice versa, but the result of several immigrations and admixture with different people who brought the same components (so the same ancestors) in these two places



    And that's exactly what i am saying. Yes maybe Sicilians and other populations share more recent or "historical" common ancestry with peloponnese, but if you go further deep in prehistory peloponnese shares a higher number of ancestors with abruzzo. Thats because people who during the middle ages brought northern components in the peloponnese shared a deep common ancestry with those who brought similar components to abruzzo in another period

    And the importance of autosomal dna compared to y Dna is visible in facial traits, as well as in many other aspects. For example if we went by ydna only, we would miss a huge extra Anatolian farmer impact in rhodes which doesn't exist, for example, in the peloponnese, as by ydna Rhodes are nearly the same or even more "European" than peloponnesians. At the same time there's nearly zero slavic ydna in peloponnese, but we can't say the same for autosomal
    We are on agreement here. But assuming I am half English and half Greek and I plot with French people. What do I have to do to do with the French?
    This is my point. You do release that some Greek islands are closer to Ashkanazi and Sephardic Jews than to Italians.

    I think Y-DNA Slavic in Peloponesse is around 15% to 20% given I2a-din and R1a (most subclades which are of Slavic origin).
    Last edited by -Scar-; 04-02-2020 at 06:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Scar- View Post
    We are on agreement here. But assuming I am half English and half and I plot with French people. What do I have to do to do with the French?
    Based on the above you share all the very very deep common ancestors of English and on the other hand the deep common ancestors of Greeks who in a very deep historical period which has lasted even milleniums, mingled with each other and "made" the southern French people. This can't be taken literally and in all cases and "hybrid" individuals (like the Chinese and Irish that you mentioned in your earliest post) but it perfectly works especially for whole groups (like peloponnesians)

    For the exactly same reason those dodecanese plot close to Jews
    Last edited by brennus dux gallorum; 04-02-2020 at 04:41 PM.

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