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Thread: "The supposed blondness and paleness of Europeans is highly overrated". Discuss.

  1. #81
    Veteran Member Samnium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyonnais View Post
    I actually would say it's few to middle numbered individuals here in Lyon of ethnic French origin with dark hair as in dark brown or wog French. we are mostly not dark. Don't confuse North Africans acting French. it's definitely souther than Lyon that they start wogging, starting to look dark brown hair med.
    Honestly I find many people with the same combo that I have (light eyes + dark brown) where I live, in Haute-Savoie. I'm not a phenotypical outlier neither a wog (in fact I've been classified as N.Atlantid) and yet I haven't light brown hair at all. I've seen many blondes in people from Haute-Savoie but there's a substantial part of the natives that are dark haired (35% I would say).

    I say the same for France as a whole, dark hair isn't at all a rarity though frequency increases the more you go south.

    By the way I think what makes you a "wog" is more the eye color than the hair color. I mean, very dark brown eyes with also a strange shape can make someone look off-euro or very southern looking, whereas dark brown hair with non "med" phenotype exist as well.

    Something to take in account is also that the South has been heavily "replaced" by Southern Europeans, it's a fact, I'm partly Italian (so I'm not biased), in SE France many people have Italian surnames, something interesting that I've observed is that the inland is less "Med" than the coastal areas, I guess that they didn't received many "immigrants".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samnium View Post
    By the way I think what makes you a "wog" is more the eye color than the hair color. I mean, very dark brown eyes with also a strange shape can make someone look off-euro or very southern looking, whereas dark brown hair with non "med" phenotype exist as well.
    I think I know what you mean. For example, George Osborne, Benedict Garrett and Colin Firth all look very British/NW Euro even with their dark hair, whereas someone like Kit Harrington looks much more Southern than that.

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    Islero Duffmannn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiro_Brianza View Post
    Maybe, for example the indigenous southern euro a lot of them have black hair and dark eyes, it is just simple adaptation to warm weather and mixing with people of North Africa. I dont know if they overrate it, I dont find blonde hair very recessive.
    True black hair is very rare in southern Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyonnais View Post
    if Northwestern Europe doesn't have many blondes around we still have in majority really light brunettes around which are still very light or light enough. i don't see the obsession with blonde.
    Lyon is not NW Europe my dear.

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    Indomitable 勇敢的矛
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Looking through my threads about the current MEPs from across the continent, it is quite striking that:

    (1) Even in far Northern Europe - Scandinavia, Netherlands, Northern Germany - a lot more people have light brown hair than truly blonde hair. Let alone the relative scarcity of truly blonde hair elsewhere in the continent.

    (2) Conversely, olive and sallow skintones are rather more common than is often thought, and not just in Southern Europe either. Even in Denmark I found one rather swarthy woman with no foreign ancestry, while in countries in Southern and even to a lesser degree Central Europe, the percentage with less-than-milky-white skin runs well into double figures. (Just to clarify: olive does NOT mean brown in a Saudi or Pakistani sense. Rather, it is still fairly light skin but with a brunet undertone).
    No, I don't really agree with you, even here in parts of England, especially in the north, a lot of people are blond. And if you go to Denmark, even Copenhagen, all you'll see is blondes. I've been there a few times. Travelling helps to dispel myths...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Est.1992 View Post
    Lyon is not NW Europe my dear.
    Speaking of France, see how pretty (and happy) Parisians looked in 1927:



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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    No, I don't really agree with you, even here in parts of England, especially in the north, a lot of people are blond. And if you go to Denmark, even Copenhagen, all you'll see is blondes. I've been there a few times. Travelling helps to dispel myths...
    Even in the Scandinavian countries, among adults light brown hair is at least as common if not more so than truly blonde hair. As for Britain, like I said to someone earlier most fair-haired adult men look like Alun Wyn Jones. Hair naturally lighter than that is found on no more than maybe 10% of adults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Even in the Scandinavian countries, among adults light brown hair is at least as common if not more so than truly blonde hair. As for Britain, like I said to someone earlier most fair-haired adult men look like Alun Wyn Jones. Hair naturally lighter than that is found on no more than maybe 10% of adults.
    Who told you this? Remember that terms like "light brown hair" and "truly blonde hair" means different things to different people. And if we go by the strictest definition, which it seems you are going by, then it really isn't anything surprising to anyone. And you really cannot form impressions of a place by reading forum posts from people... it is no substitute for seeing for yourself by going there. I have been there a few times, and other places in Europe, and I think you have somewhat of a misconception of reality.
    "

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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonSense View Post
    Non-Europeans in recent history when they had contact with Europeans it was with Northern Europeans, mainly Brits. Brits aren't generally blonde, but they have a ton of light-brown haired folks and even some redheads. But when an Arab, surrounded by people who are practically uniformly black-haired, encounters these foreigners of course he's going to be overwhelmed and percieve them all to be blonde.
    Wrong. The British were not the first European people ever to meet non - Europeans!!! Portuguese, Spaniards, Italians were the first ones! Ok! The Dutch and Danish slave - traders were there before, the English and other British came on the scene. The British as a whole, are less frequently blond than Scandinavians and northern Balts, but are comparable to other Northern populations. They are more ginger-haired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Who told you this? Remember that terms like "light brown hair" and "truly blonde hair" means different things to different people. And if we go by the strictest definition, which it seems you are going by, then it really isn't anything surprising to anyone. And you really cannot form impressions of a place by reading forum posts from people... it is no substitute for seeing for yourself by going there. I have been there a few times, and other places in Europe, and I think you have somewhat of a misconception of reality.
    I've been around all of the UK (except Northeast England) and although there is some regional variation, by and large most Brits have different shades of brown hair, be it light/mousy brown or very dark brown. As for Scandinavia, I have visited Lund, Malmo and Copenhagen, and among the natives I'd say no more than maybe 40-45% had truly blonde hair.

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