"The supposed blondness and paleness of Europeans is highly overrated". Discuss.

[Lyonnais]

It's not like that that French geography works.



It's an approximation but you see the areas (Central France, SW, SE)

SE France begin roughly around Valence, that's like 200km south of Lyon. The area in yellow is what is considered as Central France (or atleast not Southern) by almost every serious person lectured on French geography.

The four quadrants are only used for some demographical studies, that's all. Nobody here consider people from Savoy as Southern French.

she is a on agenda.

[Morena]

I have noticed the same thing.

And one of the darkest guys of European descent that I've ever seen is a Polish friend of mine.

Actually, there is a story in his family of a Hungarian ancestor - and that is the explanation he uses for his dark pigmentation haha.

Unless I'm wrong, here in the US the perception seems to be that Polish are a brunette people but not as dark as Italians.

The darkest Euro I've ever seen was Portuguese, but she may have been from one of their Islands.

[Jana]

^^^^

I know, yeah. And there is no agenda. We had French member from Lyon with Provencal and some Swiss-French ancestry and he was genetically west-central Euro.
But he would never describe himself or his region as central Europe.

[Samnium]

^^^^^If you mean genetically, only Med coast of France is southern European. Little bit more inland people are already very different.
SE France are not so much southern European genetically (unlike SW French), I think it's historical Italian influence in cities like Marseille that made them pretty Med.

Because already in Aosta Valley people are practically west-central Euro like genetically.

Not only genetically but also geographically.

And I agree for your explanation that's what I've said, many Italian people came here in the two last centuries.

And for Val d'Aosta, there are Aostans that plot with Northern French, like this one :

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley:ALP227
0.00654924 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.00987491 French_Alsace
0.01076349 Swiss_German
0.01161120 French_Nord
0.01203379 Italian_Northeast
0.01204174 French_Provence
0.01301432 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.01304845 French_Auvergne
0.01392523 Italian_Veneto
0.01427803 Belgian
0.01464657 French_Occitanie
0.01497239 Swiss_French
0.01519994 German
0.01542350 French_Paris
0.01544900 Italian_Piedmont
0.01565095 Austrian
0.01576854 Spanish_Mallorca
0.01598487 Swiss_Italian
0.01715276 Italian_Bergamo
0.01763786 Spanish_Eivissa
0.01772299 Italian_Tuscany
0.01816421 Spanish_Baleares
0.01864691 Spanish_Penedes
0.01878483 Italian_Liguria
0.01879168 Spanish_Girona

Target: Italian_Aosta_Valley:ALP227
Distance: 0.5575% / 0.00557509 | ADC: 0.5x
74.0 Italian_Aosta_Valley
23.0 French_Alsace
2.4 Moldavian
0.6 Balkar

I think that most Southern shifted samples would come from areas that are close to Piedmonte. People close from the border are probably very similar to French from the other part.

[Mr.G]

Unless I'm wrong, here in the US the perception seems to be that Polish are a brunette people but not as dark as Italians.

The darkest Euro I've ever seen was Portuguese, but she may have been from one of their Islands.

I should say, more accurately, he is as dark as the darkest Europeans I have seen. Interestingly he has green eyes, dark brown hair (not black or brown/black), but very olive, dark skin. Female friends always asks me, 'Who is that!?', very striking looking guy.

Ironically, I've known two strawberry blonds of Portuguese descent. Not that Portugal does not have strawberry blondes, but I've only known 4 people of Portuguese ancestry, so 50% were semi- redheads.

[Creoda]

Polish people (men or women) are often described or assumed to be much blonder than they really are both irl and here by some. Polish adults are naturally mostly brunette (and dark brown hair being more common than blonde shades + red).


I agree with you. Btw. I think the only ethnicity that is mostly pale in a strict sense is the Irish.

Foreigners on here also have this weird perception of Anglo-Celtic Australians as being blonder/fairer than they are (more so than Brits), but I'd never heard that stereotype in real life and never observed anything like that. The main difference that's also a real life stereotype is that Anglo-Celtic Australians are generally less pasty and anaemic looking than people back home, which is to be expected.

[Septentrion]

True black hair is very rare in southern Europe.

Black hair rare in most of Europe, but is common in Southern and far-East (somewhere in Europe).

[Morena]

I should say, more accurately, he is as dark as the darkest Europeans I have seen. Interestingly he has green eyes, dark brown hair (not black or brown/black), but very olive, dark skin. Female friends always asks me, 'Who is that!?', very striking looking guy.

Ironically, I've known two strawberry blonds of Portuguese descent. Not that Portugal does not have strawberry blondes, but I've only known 4 people of Portuguese ancestry, so 50% were semi- redheads.

I've known several people here in the South who have that look, two girls and a young boy. It is a very striking look.

[Septentrion]

I think I am but not by much.



Paul Bettany and Bobby Moore have what I'd call truly blonde hair, and the percentage of adult men with that is below 20% for sure.



Yes, light eyes are rather more prevalent than light hair.

If you go by that line (Bobby Moore or Paul Bettany or Will Hughes) then that would not make the majority of any European population. This is why it’s an exaggeration. Then it would be approximately:
27.9% - Norway
23% - Sweden
19.5% - The Netherlands
13.6% - The United Kingdom
9% - Belgium
8% - France

[Roy]

WW3 is about to erupt over whether France is West Central Europe or Central Western Europe

I spilt out my tea, lol.