Define Germanic

[Johnston]

Well if you dig stuff from the ground, all you find are things that reflect "culture".

In the 1th century AD, there had been 8 different Cultures (Judged by putting the archeological finds into boxes), all refered to as Germanic by Tacitus. One of these is the Goth (their own culture).
One is the BUrgundians+Lugians+Vandals... one is German baltic coast. One is GErman and Dutch Northsea coast. etc.

Cultural definition is important for archeology to claim: This sword, this tool, this house, is "Germanic".

its of course not used for modern people. (Germanic culture doesnt exist anymore)

But then again, in German, "Germanen" are people who lived 2000 years ago. Its not used on modern people in German language.

Yes, the Brothers Grimm had put forth their own observations on this matter, but these are usually lacking details for North Germanic peoples. I find it offensive that I have to listen to foreigners decide whether or not the sagas are real and relevant depictions of my ancestors. The books by Tolkien were not real or relevant, but the source materials he used for his works were largely inspired by true stories.

Why do you lot appropriate the name Teutonic, but not Germanic? I guess it is more understanding that Germanic includes other nations, and the Continental Germanic is said to be primarily Teuton in origin. One time, I was at an airport and met a Swabian. I asked him if it bothers Germans that the people of the Netherlands appreciably use the name Dutch for themselves, when they are not associated with the same body politic as the land governed by Berlin. He said it did not bother him at least, but I would be convinced that what separates the land under Amsterdam as being Frisian, and the land under Brussels as obviously Flemish. What other original reason is there in seeing these groups as ethnically separate? Political conventions and economical concerns cannot be all.

[Pallantides]

Some kind of half intelligent primate native to the northern parts of central Europe, who miraculously spread their languages and cultures to many corners of Europe and beyond.

[Johnston]

Some kind of half intelligent primate native to the northern parts of central Europe, who miraculously spread their languages and cultures to many corners of Europe and beyond.

Would you say Germanic is native to the Baltic Sea before developing a presence in the North Sea? After all, Celts supposedly lived from Jutland to Iberia, and the Baltic is perfectly conforming to Roman impressions and classification characteristics of Germans.

[Frederick]

Why do you lot appropriate the name Teutonic, but not Germanic? I guess it is more understanding that Germanic includes other nations

I dont know. But its like this minimum since Charlemagne.

The Franks called all the citicens of Germanic language "Thiudisk" (guessed to originate in "thiot" = folk) and the ones of Romanic language "Walhisk" (forreign).

The meaning of the term "German" is unknown and similiar words exist in too many languages.
If its Germanic in origin it means "Spear/Javelin man" (and people think about the "Framea" that Tacitus claims every man carried all day)
If its Celtic in Origin it means: "Neighbour" and everyone think of... ok, logical.
If its Roman in Origin it means "genuine, pure" and everyone recalls that Tacitus claimed the Germans look absolute pure of race and no people the Romans know of could have mixed with them for their looks are so unique and different from anything the Romans know.

But Tacitus also says that the Germans themself say about that matter: Germans is NOT a name any German ever used on himself. But forreigners use to call them like that. But since the name bears some glory (scary, brave, physical huge and strong barbarians and all those stereotypes), Germans started to use that term themselfs, with some pride.

But he also writes about Celtic tribes that keep telling everyone that they are Germans. In hope that it scares enemies away.

Funny thing. That this "Uh I am a Germanic superman" thing is that old.

However, the Germans didnt keep that name. By the 10th century we all know they call themselfs "Tiutsch" in their own tounge. And in Latin: "Regnum Theutonicorum" (Realm of the Teutons)

[Frederick]

Would you say Germanic is native to the Baltic Sea before developing a presence in the North Sea? After all, Celts supposedly lived from Jutland to Iberia, and the Baltic is perfectly conforming to Roman impressions and classification characteristics of Germans.

I once read, cultural, "Germanic" ironage culture originate in "Nordic bronce age culture", wich was in southern Scandinavia and Denmark.

While the Germanic languages are often believed to originate in Northern Germany and not in Scandinavia.

Wich would mean, the language spread north and the culture south.

[rhiannon]

Ask the members over at Skadi. They can't even come to an agreement over what constitutes a "Germanic"

LOL!

[Johnston]

I dont know. But its like this minimum since Charlemagne.

The Franks called all the citicens of Germanic language "Thiudisk" (guessed to originate in "thiot" = folk) and the ones of Romanic language "Walhisk" (forreign).

The meaning of the term "German" is unknown and similiar words exist in too many languages.
If its Germanic in origin it means "Spear/Javelin man" (and people think about the "Framea" that Tacitus claims every man carried all day)
If its Celtic in Origin it means: "Neighbour" and everyone think of... ok, logical.
If its Roman in Origin it means "genuine, pure" and everyone recalls that Tacitus claimed the Germans look absolute pure of race and no people the Romans know of could have mixed with them for their looks are so unique and different from anything the Romans know.

But Tacitus also says that the Germans themself say about that matter: Germans is NOT a name any German ever used on himself. But forreigners use to call them like that. But since the name bears some glory (scary, brave, physical huge and strong barbarians and all those stereotypes), Germans started to use that term themselfs, with some pride.

But he also writes about Celtic tribes that keep telling everyone that they are Germans. In hope that it scares enemies away.

Funny thing. That this "Uh I am a Germanic superman" thing is that old.

However, the Germans didnt keep that name. By the 10th century we all know they call themselfs "Tiutsch" in their own tounge. And in Latin: "Regnum Theutonicorum" (Realm of the Teutons)

I was referring to the Roman use of the name Teuton for one tribe or group of tribes, and the use by Germans themselves, in contradistinction from the usage of German by themselves and others. I believe Deutschland is as limiting as Allemagne in scope respecting various other subgroups of German, or Germanic. There might be a tribalistic reason to choose Deutsch over Allemagne, or vice versa, etc.

I once read, cultural, "Germanic" ironage culture originate in "Nordic bronce age culture", wich was in southern Scandinavia and Denmark.

While the Germanic languages are often believed to originate in Northern Germany and not in Scandinavia.

Wich would mean, the language spread north and the culture south.

In those times, speculation is all we have. Germanic iron age culture was from the Nordic bronze age, but this was brought to Scandinavia and Denmark just as must as literacy was, and likely through Germany, but they also returned on this path, because of the land connection in Jutland. Other routes were Rhineland and Prussia. On the other hand, microlithic and other archaelogical cultures are different between them. Consider the battle-axe culture, vs others, etc. Who knows ultimate origins? It is fruitless, and some theories are actually offensive, even if they are meant to uplift the subjects in question. Indo-European (recall Indo-Germanic, haha) has been rendered moot discussion without any inherent merit because of the assumptive implications, no matter which way you look at it.

[Johnston]

Ask the members over at Skadi. They can't even come to an agreement over what constitutes a "Germanic"

LOL!

I love how you punctuate with "LOL!" Maybe you can elaborate. I applied for membership there but with no word as to activation other than automatic generation. Their information directs me to post, but the box for typing is greyscale and does not permit submission. That is odd. My account there will therefore be deactivated in the near future, on a technological error.

[Frederick]

I believe Deutschland is as limiting as Allemagne in scope respecting various other subgroups of German, or Germanic. There might be a tribalistic reason to choose Deutsch over Allemagne, or vice versa, etc.

Well, there is not much difference between Deutsch and Alleman

Deutsch = "People" or "Folk"
Alleman = "All kind of people", or "everyone"

Alleman is quiet limited. The Alleman had been a tribal alliance. And I rate it more Swiss than German.

But "Deutsch" is derrived from the name of a language. The Franks used the term for the Frankish tounge to make a difference to the langauge the people of Gaul spoke. And even the Anglo-Saxons used the same term for the Saxon tounge.

They even both used the "Welsh" term. But the Franks used it on Latin speakers in Gaul, while the Anglo-Saxons used it on Celtic speakers.

So, 2 different people like Saxons and Franks use this term to refer to their language. Nobody of them used "Germanic".

The English later call the Netherland people "Dutch", wich means nothing other than "Deutsch" anyways.

[Johnston]

Well, there is not much difference between Deutsch and Alleman

Deutsch = "People" or "Folk"
Alleman = "All kind of people", or "everyone"

Alleman is quiet limited. The Alleman had been a tribal alliance. And I rate it more Swiss than German.

But "Deutsch" is derrived from the name of a language. The Franks used the term for the Frankish tounge to make a difference to the langauge the people of Gaul spoke. And even the Anglo-Saxons used the same term for the Saxon tounge.

They even both used the "Welsh" term. But the Franks used it on Latin speakers in Gaul, while the Anglo-Saxons used it on Celtic speakers.

So, 2 different people like Saxons and Franks use this term to refer to their language. Nobody of them used "Germanic".

The English later call the Netherland people "Dutch", wich means nothing other than "Deutsch" anyways.

So then explain Teuton. Does also Danish mean the same? Dansk tongue was the speech of all Northmen at one time, although it is now more commonly referred to as Old Norse. Isn't Danish restricted? If so, then why was it universally applied? How about the term Northmen? Aren't they really just Teutons then, or Germans? I think it is confusing for Germany, with an umbrella term, but distinct tribes composing their own states, kind of like Russian ethnic republics inside the Russian Federation.