What happened to the germanic people in Spain?

[Duffmannn]

Visigoths probably weren´t even germanics when arrived to Spain, most probably they had integrated and mixed with peoples that coexisted with them in their long 200 years journey from Sweden to Spain, passing through Poland, Ukraine, Romania, ex-Jugoslavia, Italy and France.

And anyways the mixed marriages with the local hispano-roman elites were common despite forbidden laws.

[Kamal900]

"Something I've heard"

It is estimated that at its peak there were about ~300,000 Visigoths in the Peninsula. While it is true that they were a minority, their numbers are still substantial considering that most scholars estimate that the entire peninsula at that time did not have more than 4 million inhabitants.

Visigoths "dissipated" in the sense that they were absorbed into the gene pool of the locals through time.

That's quite a lot in fact. I thought they had been a ruling elite or something in Iberia.

[gixajo]

Por lo que leo aquí es lo mas probablemente, parece que a los visigodos les daban asco los autóctonos y antes de mezclarse se hicieron el harakiri o algo parecido.

Sí, básicamente eso es lo que piensan algunos, cuando en esos tiempos incluso la provincia romana de hispania en plena crisis de la decandencia del imperio romano, era la imagen de la época de una zona próspera y desarrollada, los paletos violentos y muertos de hambre eran precisamente los visigodos, y eso que dentro de los pueblos germánicos, estaban medianamente romanizados.

[Duffmannn]

I think there are probably also some people with hidden Jewish ancestry in Spain but I haven't seen one honestly (on genetical tests), but must be quite rare.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chueta

https://elpais.com/diario/2011/07/31...04_850215.html

https://www.diariodemallorca.es/mall...l/1258581.html

https://diari.uib.es/arxiu/El-legado...ines.cid503321

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

That's quite a lot in fact. I thought they had been a ruling elite or something in Iberia.

They were the Roman Catholic royalty of the peninsula. Both Portuguese and Spanish dynasties can be traced back to Visigoths.

[Samnium]

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chueta

https://elpais.com/diario/2011/07/31...04_850215.html

https://www.diariodemallorca.es/mall...l/1258581.html

https://diari.uib.es/arxiu/El-legado...ines.cid503321

Would be nice to have them on gedmatch or whatever.

[Samnium]

Visigoths didn´t create a differentiate ethnic group in Iberian peninsula, and they never went out of the peninsula, so they mixed with locals, it´s quite simple the conclusion.

What proportion remains nowadays in Iberian peninsula population? Depending individuals, but 2-5%, as average.5% being generous.

Spain particularly has been politically more united than Italy, wit less borders and quite population movements inside , so except the case of Basques, who were isolated till recent times, the genetic admixture inside the Iberian peninsula, is relatively uniformly distributed than in Italy, and that works specially well for such an ancient input.

But of course, while we cannot separate ancient and moderns components, it´s only my opinion, but I think that is a quite likely theory for this issue.

I agree 2-5% range it's a good number. With appropriate models Molisans (Southern Italians that live in an italian region that received lot of Lombards) can be modeled with 2/3% Ancient Lombard. But also most other regions can have also that kind of input (especially Northern/Central Italians).

And I agree also with your claim about genetical uniformity, definitely.

But what I was saying is that I definitely that there are some peculiar villages that might have retained more of this ancestry, I think it's very possible actually.

[Duffmannn]

This man is the direct descendant of the penultimate visigoth king, Witiza, he came back to Toledo some years ago. His name is Ismael Diadié:

https://www.abc.es/espana/castilla-l...7_noticia.html

http://www.almeriahoy.com/2019/06/is...perdio-el.html

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Only among ethnic Catalans does Germanic admixture surpass 5%. Most of Spain and Portugal its under 1%.

My girlfriend K13 just to show an example. She is native Portuguese. Does it look at first glance that she would share only 1% of her genomes with Germans?

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 26.28
2 Atlantic 25.93
3 West_Med 21.62
4 East_Med 11.54
5 Baltic 4.05
6 Red_Sea 2.59
7 Sub-Saharan 2.58
8 Eastern_Euro 2.36
9 Amerindian 1.19


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.350326
2 Portuguese @ 6.546985
3 Spanish_Cataluna @ 8.007100
4 Spanish_Extremadura @ 8.263930
5 Spanish_Murcia @ 8.368540
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 8.840790
7 Spanish_Cantabria @ 11.128245
8 French @ 11.197918
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 11.957701
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 12.208786
11 Spanish_Andalucia @ 13.017864
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 13.114104
13 North_Italian @ 13.176331
14 Southwest_French @ 14.104487
15 South_Dutch @ 16.860746
16 West_German @ 17.891609
17 Southwest_English @ 19.506603
18 Tuscan @ 19.538406
19 Southeast_English @ 21.003275
20 Serbian @ 23.145561

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.256601


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Galicia +25% Spanish_Galicia +25% Spanish_Murcia @ 6.171642


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Orcadian + Sardinian + Spanish_Murcia + West_German @ 6.148751
2 Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.171642
3 Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 6.256601
4 Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 6.258045
5 Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.291696
6 Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 6.298751
7 French + Orcadian + Sardinian + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.332447
8 Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 6.342164
9 Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 6.350326
10 Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia @ 6.358992
11 Orcadian + Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + West_German @ 6.360356
12 French + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.397124
13 French + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.429242
14 Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 6.429522
15 French + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia @ 6.443729
16 French + Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese @ 6.462409
17 French + Orcadian + Portuguese + Sardinian @ 6.466568
18 Sardinian + Spanish_Murcia + West_German + West_Scottish @ 6.468616
19 Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.473664
20 Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Galicia @ 6.475198


With Medieval samples:

[1] "distance%=2.3586"

Trebaruna

Celtiberian,68
North_African,10.4
Suebi_proxy,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.8
Armenia_LBA,2.6

[gixajo]

They were the Roman Catholic royalty of the peninsula. Both Portuguese and Spanish dynasties can be traced back to Visigoths.

Visigoths were mainly Arrianist till the king Recaredo who converted to catholicism in 587 dc.