Early Turkic form of Turkey Turks

[Kaspias]

I am just thinking that Crimean Tatar must have Finno-Ugric input. This one is modeled as mostly Oguz-like+extra Steppe


Target: C18Turkic
Distance: 17.1786% / 0.17178604
70.8 Turkic_Anatolia-avg
20.8 Ukrainian
8.4 Tatar_Siberian

I was just going to post the same


Even if we assume it is Crimean Tatar admixture, this is 19th step of the subtraction, using it won't make sense because of such distances: Distance: 17.1786% / 0.17178604

[itilvolga]

Is there Tatar-like ancestry in Western Turkey?

According to İlber Ortaylı, there was a Tatar tribe which came from Crimea to Tekfurdağı (Tekirdağ) in 15th century.

Also the family of my maternal great grandma is called as Tatarlar (Tatars) in our village but I don’t know the reason to be honest. The family came from Kosovo, that’s another weirdness. If they are Tatars for real, it means there’s also Tatar-like ancestry in Southwestern Turkey.

[axlredneck]

I am just thinking that Crimean Tatar must have Finno-Ugric input. This one is modeled as mostly Oguz-like+extra Steppe


Target: C18Turkic
Distance: 17.1786% / 0.17178604
70.8 Turkic_Anatolia-avg
20.8 Ukrainian
8.4 Tatar_Siberian

A better model is:
"sample": "Custom:C18Turkic",
"fit": 15.8165,
"Nogai": 54.17,
"Tatar_Mishar": 40,
"Italian_Apulia": 5.83

Nogai explains the original base, Mishar explains the Steppe and Italian-Apulia is a proxy for original Crimean Greeks.

[xripkan]

I was just going to post the same


Even if we assume it is Crimean Tatar admixture, this is 19th step of the subtraction, using it won't make sense because of such distances: Distance: 17.1786% / 0.17178604

Actually all the versions of Turkic admixture (late nad early) are modeled as Anatolian Turkic+a little bit Tatar-like regarding the clear Turkic part.
What I still don't understand in my case is why when I am modelled (using my coordinates) with all modern references Mari reference gives me the best distance among all Turkic groups.

[xripkan]

A better model is:
"sample": "Custom:C18Turkic",
"fit": 15.8165,
"Nogai": 54.17,
"Tatar_Mishar": 40,
"Italian_Apulia": 5.83

Nogai explains the original base, Mishar explains the Steppe and Italian-Apulia is a proxy for original Crimean Greeks.

You are right! It seems it prefers Nogai over Turkic Anatolia.

I subtracted the Steppe part from C18Turkic and check how it is modelled
Target: C18TurkicNew
Distance: 15.4840% / 0.15483953
65.2 Turkic_Anatolia-avg
26.8 Nogai
5.4 Greek_Peloponnese
2.6 Tatar_Mishar

The Turkic admixture seems different.

[Kaspias]

What do you suggest for models? Should we use the whole spreadsheet or just regional samples from Turkics, Iranics, Anatolians etc...? So, we can discuss about the difference between early and late. I used whole spreadsheet and for me the difference, late becomes heavily Iranized.

Late samples are also give clues about migration as early ones did, but didn't want to post late ones for now to don't make people confused. I probably will open a seperate thread for them, too. I know it has been three threads already, but if I post everything in one thread it will be confusing

I think this should work for early:

Siberia:MNG_Hovsgol_BA_o2,0.085367,-0.12491,0.058831,0.052649,-0.038469,0.003068,-0.00705,-0.006692,-0.011453,-0.024055,-0.012504,-3e-04,0.00446,-0.023258,0.011401,0.012596,-0.000652,-0.003041,0.005028,0.014507,-0.017469,0.001855,-0.000246,0.010242,-0.001078
Ugric:FIN_Levanluhta_IA,0.1044325,-0.036051,0.1057825,0.0792965,-0.0122328,0.008576,0.006169,0.0141918,0.0037328,-0.0303422,0.033046,-0.0083175,0.019772,-0.0182695,-0.0065485,-0.0034805,-3.28e-05,-0.0031672,-0.0073848,0.0008442,0.016658,-0.0018547,-0.0016945,0.004097,0.0008382
Steppe-Nomad:RUS_Nomad_MA,0.087644,-0.090382,0.050534,0.031331,-0.036314,-0.008925,0.00376,0.007384,-0.009613,-0.016037,-0.007632,-0.001499,0.002527,-0.007019,-0.002172,-0.007425,-0.011735,0.004814,0.004022,-0.001,-0.004243,0.008779,0.001972,-0.00012,-0.002754
Oghuz:Turkic_Anatolia-avg,0.078696873,-0.083963831,0.024335737,0.006566527,-0.036170504,-0.002526961,0.009473932,0.007261605,-0.009136461,-0.012439212,-0.014328067,-0.001494711,0.001948896,-0.006808966,0.002674388,0.008160479,0.001206177,-6.72318E-05,-0.003722421,0.003261193,-0.012075227,0.000661755,-0.007766628,0.005433171,-0.000593954

I have to add that Steppe-Nomad despite we don't know his ethnicity certainly. Either Cuman or Bulgar, I can say.


Target: Kaspias_Early
Distance: 8.8255% / 0.08825509
43.8 Oghuz
25.2 Kipchak
17.6 Ugric
13.4 Siberia

Target: Thracian_Early
Distance: 17.4918% / 0.17491795
60.0 Oghuz
39.2 Siberia
0.8 Ugric

Target: Deniz_Early
Distance: 24.9082% / 0.24908160
76.4 Steppe-Nomad
23.6 Ugric


Lol at @Deniz.

[Deniz]

Late samples are also give clues about migration as early ones did, but didn't want to post late ones for now to don't make people confused. I probably will open a seperate thread for them, too. I know it has been three threads already, but if I post everything in one thread it will be confusing

I think this should work for early:

Siberia:MNG_Hovsgol_BA_o2,0.085367,-0.12491,0.058831,0.052649,-0.038469,0.003068,-0.00705,-0.006692,-0.011453,-0.024055,-0.012504,-3e-04,0.00446,-0.023258,0.011401,0.012596,-0.000652,-0.003041,0.005028,0.014507,-0.017469,0.001855,-0.000246,0.010242,-0.001078
Ugric:FIN_Levanluhta_IA,0.1044325,-0.036051,0.1057825,0.0792965,-0.0122328,0.008576,0.006169,0.0141918,0.0037328,-0.0303422,0.033046,-0.0083175,0.019772,-0.0182695,-0.0065485,-0.0034805,-3.28e-05,-0.0031672,-0.0073848,0.0008442,0.016658,-0.0018547,-0.0016945,0.004097,0.0008382
Steppe-Nomad:RUS_Nomad_MA,0.087644,-0.090382,0.050534,0.031331,-0.036314,-0.008925,0.00376,0.007384,-0.009613,-0.016037,-0.007632,-0.001499,0.002527,-0.007019,-0.002172,-0.007425,-0.011735,0.004814,0.004022,-0.001,-0.004243,0.008779,0.001972,-0.00012,-0.002754
Kipchak:KAZ_Kipchak,0.0705705,-0.1269415,0.0273415,0.0046835,-0.039546,-0.00502,0.00564,0.013961,-0.003784,-0.007836,-0.012991,0.000225,0.0037165,-0.005092,0.000746,0.010607,0.007497,-0.0023435,0.005845,0.005065,-0.0101695,0.000742,-0.0027115,0.0013255,-0.002455
Oghuz:Turkic_Anatolia-avg,0.078696873,-0.083963831,0.024335737,0.006566527,-0.036170504,-0.002526961,0.009473932,0.007261605,-0.009136461,-0.012439212,-0.014328067,-0.001494711,0.001948896,-0.006808966,0.002674388,0.008160479,0.001206177,-6.72318E-05,-0.003722421,0.003261193,-0.012075227,0.000661755,-0.007766628,0.005433171,-0.000593954

I have to add that Steppe-Nomad despite we don't know his ethnicity certainly. Either Cuman or Bulgar, I can say.


Target: Kaspias_Early
Distance: 8.8255% / 0.08825509
43.8 Oghuz
25.2 Kipchak
17.6 Ugric
13.4 Siberia

Target: Thracian_Early
Distance: 17.4918% / 0.17491795
60.0 Oghuz
39.2 Siberia
0.8 Ugric

Target: Deniz_Early
Distance: 24.9082% / 0.24908160
76.4 Steppe-Nomad
23.6 Ugric


Lol at @Deniz.

Deliormanlı effect

[Thracian]

Late samples are also give clues about migration as early ones did, but didn't want to post late ones for now to don't make people confused. I probably will open a seperate thread for them, too. I know it has been three threads already, but if I post everything in one thread it will be confusing

I think this should work for early:

Siberia:MNG_Hovsgol_BA_o2,0.085367,-0.12491,0.058831,0.052649,-0.038469,0.003068,-0.00705,-0.006692,-0.011453,-0.024055,-0.012504,-3e-04,0.00446,-0.023258,0.011401,0.012596,-0.000652,-0.003041,0.005028,0.014507,-0.017469,0.001855,-0.000246,0.010242,-0.001078
Ugric:FIN_Levanluhta_IA,0.1044325,-0.036051,0.1057825,0.0792965,-0.0122328,0.008576,0.006169,0.0141918,0.0037328,-0.0303422,0.033046,-0.0083175,0.019772,-0.0182695,-0.0065485,-0.0034805,-3.28e-05,-0.0031672,-0.0073848,0.0008442,0.016658,-0.0018547,-0.0016945,0.004097,0.0008382
Steppe-Nomad:RUS_Nomad_MA,0.087644,-0.090382,0.050534,0.031331,-0.036314,-0.008925,0.00376,0.007384,-0.009613,-0.016037,-0.007632,-0.001499,0.002527,-0.007019,-0.002172,-0.007425,-0.011735,0.004814,0.004022,-0.001,-0.004243,0.008779,0.001972,-0.00012,-0.002754
Kipchak:KAZ_Kipchak,0.0705705,-0.1269415,0.0273415,0.0046835,-0.039546,-0.00502,0.00564,0.013961,-0.003784,-0.007836,-0.012991,0.000225,0.0037165,-0.005092,0.000746,0.010607,0.007497,-0.0023435,0.005845,0.005065,-0.0101695,0.000742,-0.0027115,0.0013255,-0.002455
Oghuz:Turkic_Anatolia-avg,0.078696873,-0.083963831,0.024335737,0.006566527,-0.036170504,-0.002526961,0.009473932,0.007261605,-0.009136461,-0.012439212,-0.014328067,-0.001494711,0.001948896,-0.006808966,0.002674388,0.008160479,0.001206177,-6.72318E-05,-0.003722421,0.003261193,-0.012075227,0.000661755,-0.007766628,0.005433171,-0.000593954

I have to add that Steppe-Nomad despite we don't know his ethnicity certainly. Either Cuman or Bulgar, I can say.


Target: Kaspias_Early
Distance: 8.8255% / 0.08825509
43.8 Oghuz
25.2 Kipchak
17.6 Ugric
13.4 Siberia

Target: Thracian_Early
Distance: 17.4918% / 0.17491795
60.0 Oghuz
39.2 Siberia
0.8 Ugric

Target: Deniz_Early
Distance: 24.9082% / 0.24908160
76.4 Steppe-Nomad
23.6 Ugric


Lol at @Deniz.

Yes, you are right. We can discuss about it later in your thread

[Kaspias]

Deliormanlı effect

Edit: I removed Kipchak, makes more sense now.

[Hapanuwa]

Amazing work Kaspias!
Any chance you could model me too?