Should Bulgaria pay for the destruction of the Zebrnjak monument?

[Dušan]

Thank the Austro-Hungarian Empire for saving you, because today you own the old Bulgarian lands and cities - Pirot, Nis and Belgrade. A Bulgarian would never trust a Serb.

There is nothing Bulgarian in Serbia.
Turko-Tatars, stay away from us.

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Адвокатът на дявола; 6632621] А какво ще кажете за 1913 г.? Кой ни спаси тогава? О, чакайте, не се загубихме. [/ Цитат]


Save the treaty with Greece. When you were alone against the Bulgarians you always lost. This is the truth. 1913 you divided Macedonia with Greece on account of the fact that the greater burden of the war with the Ottoman Empire was borne by Bulgaria.
Bulgaria - nearly 87,000 people, including 14,000 killed in battles, 19,000 died of disease, 50,000 injured and more than 3,000 disappeared;
Serbia - 39,000 killed, dead and injured;
Greece - nearly 29,000 people (about 5,000 killed and over 23,000 injured);
Montenegro - nearly 9500 people (including 2800 killed).
The numbers clearly indicate who was at war with whom

[PAGANE]

Hussein Hilmi Pasha - If the empire fails to deal with the Bulgarians (it is about the Bulgarians in Macedonia), will the Serbian and Greek authorities tame them?
Interview with Hussein Hilmi Pasha, twice Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire, co-founder of the Turkish Red Crescent, Inspector General of Macedonia, Minister of Justice, Minister of Justice and Ambassador to Austria-Hungary. One of the most successful and intelligent Ottoman administrators of the 20th century. The interview was published by Dimitar Dumbalakov from Suho village, Lagadinsko, Aegean Macedonia - "Hilli Pasha for the New Balkans (Interview by Reserve Major D. Atanasov)" in "Kambana" newspaper, year III, issue. 1815, Sofia, February 10, 1914, when Hussein Pasha is an Ottoman ambassador to Austro-Hungarians
"I never assumed," Pasha said, "that Macedonia could ever become Serbian, that the Greeks would conquer Thessaloniki, but fate, you know, often allows for the strangest things.
The population in Macedonia is largely Bulgarian, followed by Turks, the Greeks are small, and there are no Serbs there among the indigenous population.
Besides, Hilmi Pasha continued, only the Bulgarians fought for the freedom of this country. Revolutionary struggle and war - this was purely Bulgarian only.
In revolutionary times, Greeks and Serbs, boldly saying this, went with us, the Turks, against your Bulgarian committees. They told me and my police everything they learned about you, they were our spies, friends and well-wishers.
And when Bulgaria decided to fight, they only joined to reap the benefits for you and our expense. Before they changed you, they treated us treacherously.
But whatever the Serbs and the Greeks, it is our fault, the Bulgarians and the Turks, because we did not get on time.
But the joy of the Greeks and Serbs from the easy profits will not be long. The Bulgarian, Turkish and Albanian populations, by no means, can hold them in obedience. They are best acquainted with the strong revolutionary spirit of the Bulgarian nation. Nothing can break it.
If the empire fails to cope with the Bulgarians, will the Serbian and Greek authorities tame them? "
It is always better to have a clear enemy against you. Only weak nations benefit from meanness

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Dušan; 6632636] В Сърбия няма нищо българско.
Турко-татари, стойте настрана от нас. [/ ЦИТЕТЕ]

Here's what Serbia is Not to say I'm showing you 19th century cards.
Theatrum Belli Rhenani (in German: Theater of the Rhine War) is a map of the cartographer Cyriak Blödner, originally created between 1713 and 1715. The card has 20 individual sheets and is 290 × 170 cm in size. Facing west.
The second edition of this map was created in 1717 to 1725 and is in the Vienna Military Archive with the same signature.

[Jackson78]

[QUOTE = Адвокатът на дявола; 6632621] А какво ще кажете за 1913 г.? Кой ни спаси тогава? О, чакайте, не се загубихме. [/ Цитат]


Save the treaty with Greece. When you were alone against the Bulgarians you always lost. This is the truth. 1913 you divided Macedonia with Greece on account of the fact that the greater burden of the war with the Ottoman Empire was borne by Bulgaria.
Bulgaria - nearly 87,000 people, including 14,000 killed in battles, 19,000 died of disease, 50,000 injured and more than 3,000 disappeared;
Serbia - 39,000 killed, dead and injured;
Greece - nearly 29,000 people (about 5,000 killed and over 23,000 injured);
Montenegro - nearly 9500 people (including 2800 killed).
The numbers clearly indicate who was at war with whom

Yeah, 1885 is relevant, but 1913 and 1918 aren't.

When you were alone against the Bulgarians you always lost.

Except Battle of Velbazhd.

[Jackson78]

[QUOTE = Dušan; 6632636] В Сърбия няма нищо българско.
Турко-татари, стойте настрана от нас. [/ ЦИТЕТЕ]

Here's what Serbia is Not to say I'm showing you 19th century cards.
Theatrum Belli Rhenani (in German: Theater of the Rhine War) is a map of the cartographer Cyriak Blödner, originally created between 1713 and 1715. The card has 20 individual sheets and is 290 × 170 cm in size. Facing west.
The second edition of this map was created in 1717 to 1725 and is in the Vienna Military Archive with the same signature.

[pulstar]

We run into a tricky position with the Serbs. On one end, they lead a mission that exterminated the Ottomans from Macedonia, of which Macedonian locals also joined and helped the cause. And on the other hand, Macedonians received some nasty treatment by the Serbian authorities after liberation.

I don't think the monument should be flatted though. It commemorates the death of alot of people. I'd prefer the flattening of statues such as the one of Nazi Albanian collaborators that have been erected in Macedonia. The statue of Xhem Hasa is one of them.

That line is straight out of Yugoslav communist manifesto. Those that were pro-Serbian were treated fairly, those that were pro-Bulgarian were also treated fairly.

[Teutone]

Reparations do happen even today.

These stuff are more out of good will. As you say, you shouldn't have to pay for what your great grandfather did.

Germans paid their last reperation 2010 and thats it.

There wont be anymore.

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = The Devil's Advocate; 6632728] Да, 1885 е уместен, но 1913 и 1918 не са.



Освен битката при Велбъжд. [/ Цитат]


These figures are for the 1912-13 wars
And in 1915 you were defeated and fled through the Albanian Mountains and later transferred across Corfu Island to the Southern Front. Following the defeat of the Allies at Krivolak, by German orders, the offensive was halted as Greece was still hesitant on whose side to enter. This saves the Entente forces in the Balkans from ultimate defeat, and they are given the opportunity to create a new front in Greece, which they did after Greece's accession to the Entente countries.
In 1916 it was finally made clear that the war would be long and lasting. With the Lerin operation in August, the Bulgarians seized Lerin, and with the Struma operation shortened the northeast front. In September and October, the Entente launched a counterattack in the western part of the front, which succeeded in capturing Bitola. After the battle of the Black River, where you were defeated, the front did not stabilize.
Also in 1918 at Doiran.
Serbs did not defeat Bulgarians, Bulgarians did not lose important battles. But given that Bulgaria was in alliance with Germany, that union lost World War I, which automatically led to the loss of all allied countries
Since then, since 1885. there is one expression in Bulgaria that solidified in the first half of the 20th century - " Сърбе на върбе "

[Jackson78]

blah blah blah

Serbs did not defeat Bulgarians, Bulgarians did not lose important battles.

And in 1918 Serbs kicked your ass.